Baldurs Gate 3?

Yeah. The DM’s guide already provides some possible options here for games that want a little more to the melee attacking world than just “I swing, I miss, he swing, he hit.”

Action Options

This section provides new action options for combat. They can be added as a group or individually to your game.

Climb onto a Bigger Creature

If one creature wants to jump onto another creature, it can do so by grappling. A Small or Medium creature has little chance of making a successful grapple against a Huge or Gargantuan creature, however, unless magic has granted the grappler supernatural might.

As an alternative, a suitably large opponent can be treated as terrain for the purpose of jumping onto its back or clinging to a limb. After making any ability checks necessary to get into position and onto the larger creature, the smaller creature uses its action to make a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check contested by the target’s Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If it wins the contest, the smaller creature successfully moves into the target creature’s space and clings to its body. While in the target’s space, the smaller creature moves with the target and has advantage on attack rolls against it.

The smaller creature can move around within the larger creature’s space, treating the space as difficult terrain. The larger creature’s ability to attack the smaller creature depends on the smaller creature’s location, and is left to your discretion. The larger creature can dislodge the smaller creature as an action—knocking it off, scraping it against a wall, or grabbing and throwing it—by making a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the smaller creature’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. The smaller creature chooses which ability to use.

Disarm

A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target’s grasp. The attacker makes an attack roll contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) check or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the attacker wins the contest, the attack causes no damage or other ill effect, but the defender drops the item.

The attacker has disadvantage on its attack roll if the target is holding the item with two or more hands. The target has advantage on its ability check if it is larger than the attacking creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller.

Mark

This option makes it easier for melee combatants to harry each other with opportunity attacks.

When a creature makes a melee attack, it can also mark its target. Until the end of the attacker’s next turn, any opportunity attack it makes against the marked target has advantage. The opportunity attack doesn’t expend the attacker’s reaction, but the attacker can’t make the attack if anything, such as the incapacitated condition or the shocking grasp spell, is preventing it from taking reactions. The attacker is limited to one opportunity attack per turn.

Overrun

When a creature tries to move through a hostile creature’s space, the mover can try to force its way through by overrunning the hostile creature. As an action or a bonus action, the mover makes a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the hostile creature’s Strength (Athletics) check. The creature attempting the overrun has advantage on this check if it is larger than the hostile creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller. If the mover wins the contest, it can move through the hostile creature’s space once this turn.

Shove Aside

With this option, a creature uses the special shove attack from the Player’s Handbook to force a target to the side, rather than away. The attacker has disadvantage on its Strength (Athletics) check when it does so. If that check is successful, the attacker moves the target 5 feet to a different space within its reach.

Tumble

A creature can try to tumble through a hostile creature’s space, ducking and weaving past the opponent. As an action or a bonus action, the tumbler makes a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check contested by the hostile creature’s Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the tumbler wins the contest, it can move through the hostile creature’s space once this turn.

Things like called shots (in the vein of the “Weakening Strike” and “Crippling Strike”) are also an incredibly common houserule at a lot of D&D tables. My CoS GM, for instance, has the following house rules for our game that make things pretty fun!

General Rules

Advantage and Disadvantage: In general, if there is more advantage or disadvantage than its opposite, we will apply the advantage or disadvantage as the majority decides. For instance, if someone is grabbed, blind, and flanked, a rogue attacking them has advantage, even if they are sick to their stomach.

Targeted Attacks: When attacking a specific body part or item such as a sword, if it’s easy, then it’s a -2 to the attack roll, if it’s difficult then the attack is with disadvantage, if it’s hard it’s a -5, and if it’s nearly impossible it will be both with disadvantage and a penalty.

Inspiration: A player can have more than one inspiration point at a time. They function like hero points from Mutants and Masterminds. They can be rewarded for great moments of roleplaying, or, when your chosen traits, such as your ideal, become a defining moment.

You can have up to 3 Inspiration Points.

Feats: You are allowed to purchase feats when you would receive an ability score increase.

Critical Hits: With a critical hit you can apply a cinematic effect such as targetting a specific limb, causing a cool effect to happen, or doing damage to weapon, among other effects if you desire.

I still feel like all these options are things Battle Masters do handily with a proper reaction UI.

Also nothing I saw made me feel any better about it. You added more areas but still no more levels. Rogues still get one sneak attack when dual wielding because sneak attack is it’s own action for no good reason.

Also some spells or something. You’re still level 4, but enjoy a whole new section of game that dramatically out-levels you because giving you 3rd level spells or extra attacks is something we’re not doing until late 2022 if you’re lucky.

I’ve become meh incarnate about everything they’re doing over there.

I thoroughly enjoyed my beta experience and will be very excited to play the full game when it comes out. Yes, your expectations will have to be managed, because it is ultimately a DOS game wearing a Baldur’s Gate skin, but the game that is there is very enjoyable. Loved the characters, the story, the cinematic roleplaying. There’s humor, an interesting story, a vast numbers of quests and an even vaster number of solutions to those quests. It’s a fun game y’all! But it might not be what you are expecting from the title “Baldur Gate 3” (which is an understandable disappointment) or even a DnD property really (although trying to strong arm true DnD rules into a PC framework seems to be a really unfair standard).

Larian’s blessing and curse is that they really do try to satisfy their fans perhaps to a fault. Ultimately, I think it makes their games more fun though, and hopefully they are sanding away some of those more hardcoded DOS carryover systems. God, somebody teach them how to have a proper inventory management system though, please.

For me the DnD high value factors are really just the classes, class features, and spell mechanics.

One of the biggest problems I have with Larian, is if they decide to toss that stuff out in favor of their DOS mechanics. (particularly when it comes to how spells work)

Yeah, the DOS’ inventory system is the worst ever produced.

Honestly having an option for “By the rules” or something would make so many things better.

Like I don’t want weapon skills, give me an option to turn them off. Yes I can just not use them, but that doesn’t stop the enemies from using them and annoying me. We already know it’s going to be forever before it comes out anyway.

And Sneak Attack needs to be a toggle, there is zero reason for it to be a whole button. Even Solasta just does it and they handle reactions. TWF should be good for rogues, especially since they’re literally the only class left that it’s good for in 5E (so you can double your chances of getting a Sneak Attack to stick). You think I’m picky wait till the Critical Role crew shows up and can’t make Vax work the way he does on table top.

Hopefully there will be mods that do all this, but it’s weird how Larian doesn’t understand the mechanics of the game they’re making. It feels like they’ve never played D&D, when we know that they have.

Edit: It doesn’t help that a lot of their fans are the worst. I saw a dude hop into Solasta discussions to basically yell “Solasta is garbage” and then post the patch notes for BG3. Because… BG3 has like 100 times as many people and is backed by WotC it’s totally a fair comparison. Also Solasta’s game is out, goes to level 10 and follows the rules to the letter, but you can’t have sex with a drow so I guess it loses or something.

This type of behavior always strikes me as extremely adolescent. Ignoring the fact that you can like both games, trashing one game while promoting another is the constantly annoying adversarial zero-sum “there must be winners and losers” polarization mentality that has become so trite and totally overdone.

Well, a lot of people online ARE adolescent - and not only in mind :-D

I think I threw up a bit. DOS has to be one of the most dreadfully dull experiences I’ve had in my years of gaming, despite that sort of game being right up my alley and enjoying Pathfinder (with a bunch of asterisks), Wasteland 3, etc.

Hopefully that still isn’t the case by the time it releases, otherwise I’m running for the hills!

Did you play it solo or co-op? Because I’ve tried to play it solo and I agree, but when played co-op it’s actually a blast - @ShivaX and I have played it to the end twice now (DoS2, that is).

That’s actually a concern of mine with BG3 as well - will it be fun in solo/single player? Because I already had more fun playing it co-op in the early access, and a BG3 game that I can’t enjoy on my own is going to be a problem for me. I do want it to also be fun in co-op, don’t get me wrong, but DOS2 was a stumble there, mostly due to the cumbersom UI and item/loot nonesense (which BG3 early access has in spades - cut to me opening every fucking drawer and cabinet in every room and 99.9% of them are empty or have like a rock or some dumb thing in them).

I’m not sure what you mean here - Solasta seems to do a decent enough job implementing 5e on the PC, and I’m sure if they had the resources that BG3 is receiving they could do more. Or maybe you mean it’s hard to implement 5e on top of an existing, very different framework?

Co-op. Which sucks, because co-op isn’t very common in this genre. I’ve tried it four separate times and I just cannot get into it. Dislike pretty much everything about it which drives me nuts because I really want to like the damn thing! :)

I think Soloasta does a great job with implementing 5e combat on PC. I think it does a mediocre job of everything that’s not combat.

This is fair, but like something akin to a Final Fantasy Tactics, that’s really all I want out of a game like this. In fact, I’d love me a FFT style game that uses the 5e rules.

Sure. I’m not saying Solasta is bad or anything. I think the devs succeeded admirably with their goals within the scope of their budget. I enjoyed it.

What I’m looking for from Larian is more emphasis on the out-of-combat stuff that DnD also offers.

Fair enough. However, I feel like the mechanical details of the out-of-combat stuff is less important or at least easier to adapt to a different code base. The Solasta devs didn’t have the time and resources I think to make something on the scale of BG3.

On the other hand, even with limited resources, they adapted the 5e combat pretty well. It leaves me with the impression that Larian didn’t want to start with a clean slate on the combat mechanics side, and chose to switch the combat mechanics over piecemeal.

Oh my, yes please. Where do we kickstart this?

Oh hey, it’s some people talking about FFT! People like @morlac and @Scotch_Lufkin should go play Fell Seal, it’s really good!

Also there’s basically no way BG3 is going to be what I want out of a BG3, so I’ma have to pretend it’s called something else. Ah well.

Oh absolutely. It’s obvious they started with DOS2 combat mechanics, changed what they wanted to fit 5e, (some would say badly) and are now iterating on top of that.

I’m just curious to see where it ends up.

I actually have played this - I got it on the Switch - and I freaking loved it. I added it to my list of games to replay now I have an OLED Switch, since it’s been over a year since my first play through (but I have a bunch of other stuff on my gaming plate to get through first, such as Pathfinder and I’m replaying Breath of the Wild).

Did you play it post-DLC? The Missions & Monsters expansion adds a ton of variety to the encounters, it’s so good.