RickH would probably get along with Poops “Experience with a subject is really the criteria you want to use for posting?” McGee.
RickH
2803
I promise I am really done now, Mr. House.
While I can’t say I would have banned MattG for his actions, he was deliberately pushing Tom to see what would happen.
That said, it’s amazing to me how many of you forget what Brad Wardell was like as a game developer when Demigod was released and as a person when his company made politically based decisions to support Glenn Beck. It’s kind of sad really. Lust for things conquers all I guess…
But is that really a reason to ruin a thread where people are trying to talk about the game? I have no real opinion of Brad one way or another, I think he gives excellent interviews and has really far-out political views and Stardock’s games have been hit-and-miss, but that doesn’t mean we should hound him everywhere he posts. I followed the Elemental thread quite closely as my excitement in the game was building and I was awaiting a replacement credit card to purchase the game with. Matthew’s posts were just… ugh.
It’s not about forgetting his political proclivities. It’s recognizing that they have no bearing on whether Elemental is any damned good or not, and that letting every discussion become about politics is toxic.
Rimbo
2807
What we really need to do is to allow everything else to invade P&R.
Oh…I didn’t realize we separated products produced from the place they are produced. So in that respect it’s like buying from Tyson Chicken…gotcha.
The proof of what and who Brad Wardell is exists here in qt3. If you want to ignore that and support his company, more power to you. But to pretend they are separate from the products produced…I guess you CAN lie to yourself about anything…
edit: to admend my comments. I really don’t think Brad is an evil guy plotting anything. I just think he’s willing to “spin” (lie) to cover his company interests, as do many companies and CEOs and that he’s a confused American…as are many Americans. I like a lot of other things about Mr. Wardell and I’m not trying to say he’s the devil or whatever. Just that I choose not to support that sort of company…
I can’t remember, have we ever had bans come about as a result of arguments in the banning thread?
The circle would then be complete, I suppose.
Matt, I think it’s possible, and reasonable, to talk about whether a Stardock game is any good without taking into account Brad’s political views. Those views come into play (or not, depending on personal factors) in the purchasing decisions.
Enidigm
2811
You wishy washy EEs are the reason for the decline of Western Civilization!
Cubit
2812
Yep. Brad has shown us that his politics influences how he runs Stardock. Why should we separate the two if he doesn’t?
That’s an interesting question, and though I guess this may not be the appropriate place for that discussion, what the hell here goes: I guess my counter question would have to be, why would this influence your buying decision? Not to put words in your mouth, but is this because Brad’s politics bother you so much that they destroy any pleasure you could derive from the games his company makes?
“We” shouldn’t. You’re welcome to use whatever methodology you wish to determine what you buy from whom. However, at least be fucking honest about it, step up, say “No matter how good this game might be, I can’t in good consience support a business headed by someone who’s political views so thoroughly violate my worldview, so I won’t be buying the game” and then shut the fuck up. I’d get absolutely nothing from the one, singular contribution to the thread ostensibly about gameplay by you doing so, but at least it’d be easy enough to just let it go and not worry about it.
What’s nauseating is the constant harping and nitpicking from this pseudo-customer viewpoint, where your decisions are influenced as much by politics as by any intellectually honest appraisal of gameplay. The only possible reason for doing that which I can posit is that you think your politics are so innately correct that everyone else should share your viewpoint, and if they don’t, well, you’ll just make sure to color as much discussion as possible in order to try to convince them. That’s dishonest, and it’s goddamned annoying (especially when it’s as egregiously transparent as Gallant’s was). It makes you look small, and petty, and self righteous and, well, like a first grade flaming cock.
Cubit
2816
Huh. You must be reading a different thread than me then, Mouselock. None of Matt G’s posts in the Elemental thread were about politics.
Nah, that’s Penelope Spheeris’ fault…Punk vs Hair metal? No contest. I’ll take the Germs over WASP…
Could someone point out where Matt was bringing in P&R to the Elemental thread? I see him being his usual uber-snarky self, but I don’t see how any of it is political.
Edit: yeah, what Cory said.
You see, the problem with letting the politics out of P&R is that it produces utter insanity like this. You’re accusing me of supporting Stardock and lying to myself because I said that Brad’s politics have nothing to do with the quality of Elemental. You’re so utterly blinded by frothing hatred that you apparently can’t even conceive of the possibility that I might be anything other than some form of blind Stardock fanboy.
Do I need to produce a list of liberal credentials before you’ll listen to me? Do I need to stand here and declaim my lack of support for Stardock and my loathing of Brad’s politics? Are there any other people I need to excoriate? Is this any fucking different than the asshats who demand that each and every Muslim engage in a public five-minute hate of the terrorist threat du jour before they may be allowed out in public?
The end stage of this kind of thinking is a toxic Balkanization, in which every person is either with you or against you. In which every discussion becomes about the politics of the participants, no matter what the actual subject at hand is. I’ve seen it happen–at least one Usenet group that I followed eventually dissolved under the political threads until nothing was left but a few bitter die-hards, sniping at each other.
I don’t think much of Brad’s politics. He keeps it in his pants outside of P&R, however, and if he can be civil than so can I.
It’s not that Matt talked about politics, it’s that he can’t keep his political disagreements with Brad from affecting his other posts. He goes around picking fights with him. After a while it just gets tiresome, and I wish someone close to Matt would tell him what an obsessed, negative douche he sounds like for doing so.
