2861

God damn it, I love this thread. The Gallants are on a tear lately.

2862

Rather than do more political debate, I’ll just say that conservatives could think your views are anti-country and lump you into a big, liberal pile and think every thing related to you deserves zero respect.

I just think the serial stalking and subsequent incessant baiting had finally progressed over the line, in this case, as a result of a similar sentiment to my statement above.

2863

It’s hard not to turn this into a political debate when you make statements like that. Conservatives don’t think what you said. The right wing media and their followers think that, but real conservatives and I actually have a lot we both can agree on…from the few I’ve talked with.

It’s why I take people that support Fox News and the likes of Beck and Rush to task. Because those people are being spoon fed lies and not questioning things.

shrugs To me, there is a big distinction between people that are rationally thinking, and decide that conservative views are closest to their own and people that are just listening to whatever the right (crazy) media is telling them. So, it makes it even harder for me not to say something.

Though that’s not really related to this conversation… :)

I just think the serial stalking and subsequent incessant baiting had finally progressed over the line, in this case, as a result of a similar sentiment to my statement above.

Bah, it’s the internet and he released a game that wasn’t done. He can say whatever, but the 0-day patch fixed a bunch of things that people tried to defend. And multiplayer isn’t even enabled yet. If you’re going to that, you should expect ridicule…especially on the games forum.

2864

This thread sure went places.

2865

I can understand why you expect people to be disappointed, or angry, or upset about the game not working as advertised or as they think it should. But ridicule? Really? (I mean, I guess perhaps you should expect it, this being the intarwebs and all. But I’d far prefer that civilized, moderately intelligent people not post stuff like the above and call it out as de rigeur for internet discussion of flawed products.)

Maybe we can reserve the expectation of ridicule for true, over the top, overbearing bombast? I get that Brad is a great cheerleader for his own company, but we’re not talking Derek Smart levels of bombastic attitude, here. I know I sure enjoy this little corner of the internet more when it’s about discussion and critique, instead of ridicule and trolling.

2866

And unfortunately it seems to be stuck there. With no tow truck in sight.

2867

I have to confess something. When I clicked on this thread, I thought that I was clicking on, “That Internet Dating Thing.” My hand must have jerked or something, because for a couple pages now, I’ve just been like, “Jesus, how off topic can you get?”

2868

I actually thought BillD posted that in the Internet Dating Thread and I was confused as to why he would delete a post like that when I F5’d that thread.

2869

Have you since clicked on the actual “That Internet Dating Thing” thread?

Because therein you may find your answer.

2870

You’re right on my parting salvo. :) And I hear ya’.

As for whether or not the postings were constructive and warranted, that is something the two opposing sides will never agree on it would seem. I am good with that too.

2871

FWIW, I had a soft spot/felt for Smart for a long time while he was here and after his final banning. Although, I barely was able to grok his games and, as a result, did not really dig into them. He certainly is “unique” in his brand of self promotion and the way he operates as a whole. The problems folks have with him are easily understandable and I stopped keeping track and did not follow as closely his crazy. It was more what went on here that I paid attention to, which, still, was not always sane. ;) He lived and died his games, that is for sure.

Some of people’s issues with Brad are well founded as well. I think the intent where his actions are concerned are substantially different when comparing the two. AS I said in THE THREAD, I think this is more of a growing pains thing from the small, “for the people” developer into something much larger. Stardock has to be run differently now, I am afraid, and Brad is resisting the change. I respect him for attempting to stick to his ideals, but I do not think the PC gaming fans will allow it to continue as it was in the GalCiv days.

-Ty “Apologist for All” jenks

2872

He did kind of set himself up with that Gamer Bill of Rights thing.

2873

Among the many exotic locales that this thread has visited, the one that finally turned it into the sorry wreck you see before you is Detroit. That city will fuck you up, man.

2874

That thread is really long and there is more then one example of where MattG crossed the line into politics, even if his most recent snark was less explicit. For example, this exchange from a year ago:

(After Brad showed a screenshot of the game)

It looks like something Hitler would make.

He was a painter.

Just sayin’.

Then some people asked him to stop with the attacks, and this was his response:

Well, you have your preferences, and other people have theirs. Whether it’s about how much the developers of Catechumen love Jesus or how much the developers of Elemental love to insinuate that the President of the United States might be a little too much like Hitler, some people are not loathe to discuss just how much the producer informs the product.

That derailed the thread for a page or two, even though there were two other threads discussing Brad’s political views at the time. But apparently that wasn’t enough for MattG.

In the context of things like that, you can’t just ignore MattG’s later comments as simply being about whether the game is good or not. MattG was not the only person who stated that they felt Brad’s politics were enough of a reason to not buy anymore Stardock games, something they have every right to express. But almost all of them stated their opinion and left the thread devoted to a game they weren’t going to buy. MattG did not.

2875

I guess my post was more of a “Why is ridicule the default state?” type thing. I get the dichotomy between the Gamer Bill of Rights and how Elemental apparently came to be released. My natural reaction would be to say “Hey, Brad, what happened here?” rather than “Brad, you suck and are a hypocritical douchebag!”. I don’t get why the latter is the expected default state unless the poster has anger issues or is generally just a not-very-pleasant person. (There were some of each type, IMO, in that thread.) And I certainly don’t get why I ought to expect the latter (in either case) to be the norm instead of the former, particularly in respect to just “accepting” it instead of lamenting the change.

I suppose I’m hopelessly out of touch with the times or something, and being an ass is now the new black. I tend to really appreciate the fact that Tom tries to draw some boundaries around that, though. I also appreciate the fact that, as near as I can tell, even if those boundaries aren’t 100% equivalent, they still apply to everyone: Anybody can step far enough over them to deserve a banninating, at least for a little while.

2876

2877

Guapo got banned?

2878

Appears so.

Pretty tame stuff though so who knows what the reason was.

2879

I haven’t read that thread, other than the excerpts posted here, but I’m assuming it took a similar trajectory to the last thread about a bug in a Stardock product where Brad came in denying there was any problem, making personal attacks and selectively replying to snipe at people without answering the substantive questions, then played the victim when people replied in kind, then made a “taking his ball and going home” post, then came back after cooling off and admitted there was a problem and outlined what they had done/were doing to fix it. I could be wrong though, the only thing I know for sure is the “taking his ball and going home” post which was quoted here and in the RPS article, and the apology after the fact.

But as for why someone would jump on Brad rather than giving him the benefit of the doubt and politely asking what went wrong, I think the answer is that it’s Brad. And it has nothing to do with his political views. He has repeatedly taken a “blame the customer” stance when there are problems in his products, that has subsequently blown up in his face. Do it enough and people start looking for screw-ups.

2880

The last thing the Elemental thread needed was someone pulling in even more drama from another thread on a different subforum.

ElG should have known better.