Bananas and Nuts

[Anaxagoras]

Isn’t a pileon an ancient Roman throwing weapon, like a javelin?

No, that’s the atlatl. The pileon was a special kind of nail used in the construction of the aqueducts.

I was shocked to learn that the ultimate racial slur apparently is okay around here (oh, wait - in the right “context”).

That’s correct; a racial slur is (and should be) OK in the right context. (No need for air quotes.)

It looks like you have some growing up to do.

[Andrew]

Which thread was it that got shit up by a pileon?

You don’t think that the Infamous Spatzi Thread qualifies? Although admittedly the original post was not one of Qt3’s finest.

[BlueJackalope]

That white folk are more likely to try and make it obvious how anti-racist they are.

Why would they…

Originally Posted by Lorini
I don’t think Shanahan likes black players.

oh right

[Bahimiron]

You don’t think that the Infamous Spatzi Thread qualifies?

I figured you’d mention that, but…

Although admittedly the original post was not one of Qt3’s finest.

…yeah, that.

Shitting up a thread seems to indicate that prior to the shitting there was something redeeming to be found. Shitting on shit doesn’t make it shittier. It’s still just shit.

[Mrenda]

I figured you’d mention that, but…

…yeah, that.

Shitting up a thread seems to indicate that prior to the shitting there was something redeeming to be found. Shitting on shit doesn’t make it shittier. It’s still just shit.

However, instead of being up to your knees in shit you’re then up to your neck in shit, and pretty soon you’re going to have start eating shit or you won’t be able to breath.

[mrmolecule88]

That’s probably a reference to this post when you used a homophobic slur.

So wait…are we okaying that whole “nigger” thing a few pages back?

Because some of you guys are “I need to have my right to call out child beaters, and if I don’t have it, then something is wrong with the forum!” while at the same time the rest of you are saying “Demon G Sides can’t be trusted with that power! He’s too young!”

What line are we drawing here? I really have no clue.

[Staff_Sergeant]

So wait…are we okaying that whole “nigger” thing a few pages back?

Because some of you guys are “I need to have my right to call out child beaters, and if I don’t have it, then something is wrong with the forum!” while at the same time the rest of you are saying “Demon G Sides can’t be trusted with that power! He’s too young!”

What line are we drawing here? I really have no clue.

Equating Buceph’s use of nigger with your use of faggot is a monstrously ignorant thing to do, and the rest of your post is just strawman bullshit that you felt the need to add because you probably realize how weak the first half is.

Here’s a hint: when use of the word is followed by the sentence “please rape my face”, you are probably using it in an offensive manner.

[MattKeil]

However, instead of being up to your knees in shit you’re then up to your neck in shit, and pretty soon you’re going to have start eating shit or you won’t be able to breath.

Yeah, the metaphor doesn’t really extend that far. I’m sure Bahimiron is sorry he ruined the scintillating thread that consisted of a complete dipshit illogically raging at Steam and insulting the people trying to help him. We can only dream of what might have been.

[Mightynute]

No, that’s the atlatl. The pileon was a special kind of nail used in the construction of the aqueducts.

I thought an atlatl was one of those cute little salamander things.

[SpoofyChop]

This probably isn’t going to help but I want to try anyway.

The thing I’ve noticed the most over the course of 8 years participating here is this: when the forums first started, people were unfailingly polite.

Now the opposite is true.

I really don’t know what all the points and counterpoints on the latest issues are, so I have no input into who is right or wrong on these topics, but I do think that the thing that would be the most helpful is if everybody would be more civil to each other.

I’ve been trying myself…frankly it’s hard. The internet is the perfect place to be a jerk :)

[Lizard_King]

I haven’t seen the dog piling being productive from either a discussion sense or seeing any change in the person who makes the remarks. They either get very defensive because they feel they are being misunderstood or they slink away, happy that they’ve successfully trolled the place yet again.

It just shouldn’t be that easy. Trust that people know that you don’t tolerate racism. That you are a decent person. You don’t need to show this, because everyone assumes it until you open your mouth and prove otherwise. And if someone else says something racist, move on. Mark them as stupid in your memory banks and move on. Dog-Piling just doesn’t solve anything, gets everyone totally riled up and will almost certainly continue to result in bans to the people piling on.

Perhaps it’s a consequence of being white, I don’t know. People look at me and figure that I’m probably not a racist, at least against black people. But perhaps if you are white, you have to deal with people (both white and of color) assuming that you are a racist just because you are white. So because of that, white people may go overboard. Rein it in if so. It’s ok to be white :) :)

I’m sure that’s part of it in some cases. Allow me to suggest an alternative possibility: there is a lot in the history of racism, in academic and practical terms, that suggests to people of all races that passivity or laughing along in a bygones-be-bygones manner in the face of behavior that you consider unacceptable represents complicity, depending on the context. This is where being part of the majority group enters the picture. If you buy into this philosophy generally, it tends to be accompanied by a corollary that as a member of a group that is generally advantaged in a society, you are benefiting structurally from the -ism and ought to hold yourself accountable by doing what you can to combat it actively.

It’s not about guilt trips, being patronizing, or blame, especially not self-inflicted. It’s about drawing a line and using social pressures constructively to promote more acceptable behavior. Repeatedly incentivized behavior creates habit, and if you can create a habit in your community of eschewing -isms even if it’s only because it becomes a pain in the ass to them, then that’s progress.

Finally, that’s not to say that this can’t become a witchhunt, or that everyday Rick Sanchii and Juan Williamses won’t occasionally get lit up for being stupid or awkward or being taken out of context more than anything else. There’s always that possibility, and it’s worth looking out for. In addition, it’s important to try to distinguish between people sincerely airing opinions they want to discuss in good faith and people simply being ignorant or incendiary for the fuck of it. I say “try” because it’s always in the eye of the beholder, but there’s as much harm in generalizing axiomatically that everyone is the former as the latter.

So, yeah, sometimes a thread gets off the rails and mean things get said. Things get out of hand. But it’s important not to completely discard the importance of negative social pressures in an effort to create some sort of halfassed rationale for moderating decisions that are not going to stop being controversial anytime soon.

[stusser]

What if someone starts a thread titled “Tell us how you shoot up (that’s interesting)”?

That would be pretty awesome. I enjoy interacting with people that aren’t exactly like myself. If any IV drug abusers, hookers with hearts of gold, stone cold pimps, freedom fighters, traveling grifters, credit card jackers, tattooed pierced freaks with cat-eye contact lenses and forked tongues, railway hobos, penthouse forum authors, or bank robbers reading this feel like starting a thread talking about their particular divergence from the “norm”, please do so.

Just keep it in that thread, we don’t need “That jerkface turned out a runaway, got her addicted to black tar, and made her work on her sweet 16 birthday so his opinions about Fallout: New Vegas are obviously crap!” turning up.

Oh, and stay away from software piracy.

[madkevin]

The thing I’ve noticed the most over the course of 8 years participating here is this: when the forums first started, people were unfailingly polite.

That’s not even a little bit true.

[jerri_blank]

It looks like you have some growing up to do.

Fuck off. Accepting the use of a nasty racial slur is not maturity.

Maybe the disconnect here is that I grew up in a part of the country where the only people who use that word are ugly, racist trash. I think it’s adorable that there are places where people think it’s okay to throw it around.

[MattKeil]

I’m sure that’s part of it in some cases. Allow me to suggest an alternative possibility: there is a lot in the history of racism, in academic and practical terms, that suggests to people of all races that passivity or laughing along in a bygones-be-bygones manner in the face of behavior that you consider unacceptable represents complicity, depending on the context. This is where being part of the majority group enters the picture. If you buy into this philosophy generally, it tends to be accompanied by a corollary that as a member of a group that is generally advantaged in a society, you are benefiting structurally from the -ism and ought to hold yourself accountable by doing what you can to combat it actively.

It’s not about guilt trips, being patronizing, or blame, especially not self-inflicted. It’s about drawing a line and using social pressures constructively to promote more acceptable behavior. Repeatedly incentivized behavior creates habit, and if you can create a habit in your community of eschewing -isms even if it’s only because it becomes a pain in the ass to them, then that’s progress.

Finally, that’s not to say that this can’t become a witchhunt, or that everyday Rick Sanchii and Juan Williamses won’t occasionally get lit up for being stupid or awkward or being taken out of context more than anything else. There’s always that possibility, and it’s worth looking out for. In addition, it’s important to try to distinguish between people sincerely airing opinions they want to discuss in good faith and people simply being ignorant or incendiary for the fuck of it. I say “try” because it’s always in the eye of the beholder, but there’s as much harm in generalizing axiomatically that everyone is the former as the latter.

So, yeah, sometimes a thread gets off the rails and mean things get said. Things get out of hand. But it’s important not to completely discard the importance of negative social pressures in an effort to create some sort of halfassed rationale for moderating decisions that are not going to stop being controversial anytime soon.

Read this until you get it, people. It’s important.

[Mightynute]

Just keep it in that thread, we don’t need “That jerkface turned out a runaway, got her addicted to black tar, and made her work on her sweet 16 birthday so his opinions about Fallout: New Vegas are obviously crap!” turning up.

Dude, I’ve told you, she was 17. Let it go.

[Andrew]

Read this until you get it, people. It’s important.

I agree completely with his post, but maybe we can exert some negative social pressure without 4 pages of people trying (and failing) to be Bill Dungsroman.

[MattKeil]

I agree completely with his post, but maybe we can exert some negative social pressure without 4 pages of people trying (and failing) to be Bill Dungsroman.

This is a good point.

[inactive_user]

The only thing worse than that would be people trying to be Flowers. Because it makes me want to break out the diagram that illustrates the relationship between funniness, people who are Dave Chappelle, a Rick James impression, and people who are not Dave Chappelle.

[Tyjenks]

It is like 2 outfielders calling for a fly ball. At some point, one guy has it under control and the other can hang back. If it gets dropped, someone can be hovering there to take over. Some of the threads in question are like having an entire team’s active roster playing in the outfield with still only one guy to get out.