Well, I for one liked Deus Ex 2…
Anyway, I wouldn’t mind if autoselling caught on, at least for obvious junk. That would be a nice way to combine realistic drops (i.e. most thugs have junk for equipment) with a convenient reward for the player.
Dragging around loot for sale if there’s only a single merchant is rather pointless anyway. Designers that force us to trip back to town with our loot had better provide several shops that will pay different prices for different items.
I played the first few chapters. Basically, meh. It’s not bad, but I was hoping for a bit more from the patron of Black Isle and the Fallout series. For a comparison with a somewhat similar recent release, Fable, for all its flaws, is a better game.
Sure, Bard’s Tale is humorous and self-parodying. No, none of the jokes are actually all that funny – mildly amusing is about as good as it has gotten so far. Disgaea did a much better job of sending up Japanese games and anime than Bard’s Tale does for American RPGs and fantasy novels. I laughed at Disgaea jokes, but at most smiled at the ones in Bard’s Tale.
The combat system is simple, but not all that bad. They seem to have managed to balance the value of melee, archery, and summoning spells, a rare feat. The talent (feat/perk) system seems reasonable. The main magic form is summoning spells, and it’s entirely in character for the Bard to be dancing around in the back encouraging his minions to fight, but not risking his precious skin. Unfortunately, the “attack” command often seems to have no effect, so even if you don’t want to be in melee, you sometimes have to run through the middle of a group of enemies to get your minions tangled up in combat and doing something useful, which is rather frustrating. The melee blocking system is a bit annoying, and it’s easy to get turned around.
The quests are pretty elementary, but there is often a grain of humor and wit sometimes lacking in these games. However, the meta-humor of the infinitely prolonged quest which just when you think you’ve finished it has another step is minimal at best, and quickly becomes annoying.
They have unskippable cut scenes, often mildly amusing the first time, cut-your-throat painful if you have to reload. Please, please, not another dancing-elf insult song. Oh god, there they are, the dancing elves… Guess I’ll go get a soda now…
The game’s supposedly bawdy sensibility is very mild indeed, entirely appropriate for the T rating. A few big-tit jokes and some implied sex are about as far as it goes, just as well, as this aspect of the game is very juvenile.
NPC dialogue often offers a “nice/nasty” choice. So far these choices have not been very meaningful, but possibly later in the game this makes some kind of difference – unlikely, yeah, I know, but it could happen.
There are no minigames, at least in the first few chapters, and no other secondary activities to do besides questing and killing monsters along the way. It’s pretty much “go here, do this, go there, do that” with a couple of side-quest choices at any given moment, but a rather linear world that doesn’t hide the lack of choices all that well.
Since I take it that you are working on this, is there an issue that might mean there will not be a pc version?
Not that autoselling has all that much to do with load times, just two points I forgot to mention in my above note.
I have no problem with autoselling. I like it when a RPG’s item system is complicated enough so that there are more choices to make, but as long as the system is simple enough that one weapon is always obviously superior or inferior to another of the same type, then sure, autosell the bad one. It keeps save-game size down, right?
The value of using all that arttist and designer time making the wolf pelts and other junk-drops seems rather low when they instantly turn into silver in any event, but there is a bit of color there compared to just getting a cash drop, so why not… I think I’d prefer it if that time had gone into a minigame or something, but it’s certainly not a negative feature.
Oh yeah, before I forget, another thing about BT annoys me. There is a long-seeming load-time going in and out of every tiny little “broch” house in each town. It’s one thing if the game can remember the last level I was on, so when I go back out it’s instant, but it’s a full 10 second load sequence each time, in and out, in both directions. So if I am just wandering into all 12 or so doors in town looking for NPCs, that’s like 4 minutes wasted time. 4 minutes doesn’t sound like all that much, but it took only about that long to survey the houses’ contents, which were all 1 room huts that either were empty, had a chest, or had a NPC with one thing to say.
Since I take it that you are working on this, is there an issue that might mean there will not be a pc version?[/quote]
No there will definately be a PC game… we are working hard to convert it over to a more traditional PC style action RPG control scheme, i.e. point and click vs. gamepad type controls.
Re: Miramom’s comments… there are very few unskippable cutscenes in the game (when they are in there it’s due to scripting problems, we actually wanted to make all of them skippable but had some trouble with a few of them.) … are you hitting “start” to skip them? Certainly all of the songs are skippable as they are extra long.
Load times are very regrettable and a by product of the engine we used, I wish it could have been better as well. Sorry that you don’t find the game so humorous (there are a ton of people who’ve played the game who do find it funny) but glad to hear you like the combat.
I’ll try again, I thought I had flailed at all the buttons repeatedly during various Bodh dialogue bits and dancing elf songs, but maybe I didn’t hit start…
I may have given too negative an impression of the game by focusing more on the shortcomings. I’m going to keep on playing it, to see what else there is, I just had been hoping for more.
No problem! I actually like to hear about things people didn’t like (how else are we going to improve?) So feel free to comment away positive or negative. I just didn’t want you to have to sit through a bunch of cutscenes that should be skippable (that is the worst thing ever.)
“more traditional PC style action RPG control scheme”
sigh I take it that you mean Diablo?
Might I be so bold as to make a suggestion. Could we keep the original controls? As an opinion. I understand that the market says support what users have and everyone has a mouse. However a lot of user do in fact have controllers. Heck most computer controllers are just knockoffs of the ps2 design so it isn’t like you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
“more traditional PC style action RPG control scheme”
sigh I take it that you mean Diablo?
Might I be so bold as to make a suggestion. Could we keep the original controls? As an opinion. I understand that the market says support what users have and everyone has a mouse. However a lot of user do in fact have controllers. Heck most computer controllers are just knockoffs of the ps2 design so it isn’t like you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.[/quote]
We would probably leave the original control scheme in as well if it is at all feasible to do so… more options=good.
The game improves somewhat after the first few chapters in terms of basic gameplay, as you get a few more options. The start button certainly removes a major source of irritation (though I think it would be better if it were a more obvious button, especially since it normally interrupts the game for the menu.)
However, there is a lot of repetitious fighting in the dungeons. In the second (mountain) tower, after the relatively tough initial test (can be tough if your pets get hit just near the end of a fight, as the next one starts immediately), it’s an awful lot of killing the same monster groups over and over again, it gets a bit old.
As the game progresses, the linearity becomes more and more obvious. I think a bunch more side-quest and/or minigame-like things to do would improve the feeling of riding on rails. One particular source of linearity is the fixed order in which the next tune and the next special weapon are encountered. The first two stores are pretty worthless with the exception of the 2-pet instrument, since you just trip over superior special items in any event that are better than anything in the stores.
Also, wrt the story, it seems odd to me that nothing is explained about what’s going on even halfway into the game. There’s this evil druid with the princess, but why? I suppose it doesn’t really matter, since the whole thing is so jokey, but it’s still a bit odd.
One more little nitpick which may be my fault, really – I got the second non-summoning spell, but have no idea what it does. I may have missed the NPC explanation, or there just wasn’t one, and the UI which lists all the tunes, doesn’t list the other spells (or did I miss it someplace.) I even cast it once, and still am not really sure.
The start button is pretty standard for skipping cutscenes… either that or X. I tend to prefer start as a skipper to avoid having people do it accidentally (especially in a game where the cutscenes are supposed to be such a big part of the game.) I’d be interested to find out what most people prefer though…
The dungeons are more repetitious than we wanted them to be yes. We had originally intended them to be kind of an old school dungeon homage… we kind of dropped the ball on them in retrospect we could have made them much better. To put a silver lining on where you are in the game… the forest tower to mountain tower segment is the most linear part of the game things will open up a little bit more again soon.
As far as the story goes… you’ll learn more in time. There are little clues scattered all over the place which can also help you figure some things out.
The second artifact that you recovered was to summon Herne… basically as you defeat the tower guardians you can use their powers in battle. So Herne is not usefull unless there are enemies around. With one stone he will root all enemies onscreen, with two stones he will also poison them, and with three stones he will outright crush some of them (this is somewhat randomly determined). Hope that helps!
OK, the zombie dance club is pretty damn funny.
My only real complaint with BT is the top-down perspective. I hate locked perspectives in 3D games, and locked overhead is typically the worst of all.
I think the humor is great. It’s not all knee-slappingly funny, but that fits perfectly with the dry, English aesthetic that the game’s shooting for. What’s there is well done, although I think there are often stretches of humorlessness that go on too long, particularly in the dungeon/forest areas. Having built up the player’s expectations at the beginning, it’s kind of a let-down when there’s so little narrator-bard banter during the dull, walking-around stretches.
(One of my favorite bits of humor: I loved it at the beginning when the bard would yell “Charge!” at his summoned lightning spider–which, for those who don’t know, is basically just a blue ball of lightning energy.)
I’ve got no problem with the inventory system. Once I figured out how it worked, I appreciated not having to do the Backpack Boogie. I also like some of the goofy drops: the Snowglobe of Houton, for example.
Etc. Great game.
I’d be a big fan of this. I can’t stand Diablo-style control schemes, and getting gamepad support for the PC version of this game would be fantastic.
Finished the game last night. It wasn’t bad, but I still have to say the game is just not all that impressive. I mean, it didn’t live up to the promise of the web-site… I haven’t changed my mind about any of the points I made in previous posts. Among other recent RPGs I’ve played, BG:DA2, very similar in basic gameplay and design, was superior technically, and Fable was better in terms of having more scope for choice and freedom to mess around with the world (though it too was overly short and too linear in its basic quest sequence) – and I thought both of those games were just OK.
So far as I could tell there is a total of one really meaningful dialogue choice in the game (the final cutscene.) The other choices seem either to do nothing, or else cause you to temporarily fail until you go back to the NPC to make the “right” choice again. I may have missed a choice or two of course, I didn’t replay everything, but nevertheless the dialogue seemed to be fairly pointless.
Oh yeah, I have to agree, the overhead camera is really annoying. It feels very confining, and it’s weird that you can never see more than 20 meters or so from the bard even when he’s out of doors in flat ground.
Spoilers ahead
I just wanted to point out that You are wrong about the dialogue choices.
Example 1: The Jail sequence. If you fail once you kill one of the prisoners… you can keep failing until you kill all of them, If you kill Ketill (the guy you were sent to free) then that quest takes a different branch.
Example 2: the puppy dog by the well, if you are snarky to him twice he will go away, never to be seen again, if you are nice then you’ll have a companion for the rest of the game (this does alter some story elements as well as change how you might approach combat).
Example 3: In the Viking Tombs if you are snarky to the Firbolg trapped behind the Ice he will run away when you free him which results in you not being able to meet him later in the mines. There are lots of little and some not so little cause and effects that you will see depending on your choices in the game.
All that aside, sorry you didn’t like the game… what specific things would you like to see in a sequal (if there is one, which I can neither confirm nor deny…)
Those are certainly choices, I admit. The dog is pretty useless for doing damage, but it does do a good job of distracting the enemy if you want to pull individuals away from a flock.
Anyway, things I’d like to see in a sequel:
Design features:
Much more complex item choices. The gameplay is really similar to Diablo here, but there are no interesting item drops, no weapons power tradeoffs (except between the skill categories), no constructed or enhanced items, etc. If you’re going to have a clickfest combat system, there should be some reward for actually doing the combat. There was actually no need for money in BT. In a few places shopping did give you a better weapon or armor somewhat before you’d see a new unique drop for that kind of item, but in no place did you actually need any money, you could just use the preplanned unique items through the entire game. This item system contributed to the riding-on-rails feel of the game.
More complex magic choices. In fact, there are no magic-related character development choices in BT, as you get all the spells just by questing, and there is no other way to get the spells.
More complex dungeon features. I’m not saying I’m a fan of lever puzzles, but come on, all there were in these dungeons were portals, entrance-traps, and chests. There’s got to be something else you can put in there.
Less repetitious combat situations. OK, OK, there are a limited number of ways in 2D that little spritelike enemies can engage you, but with the exception of boss fights, almost all BT combat feels pretty much the same. You got your charging monsters (all with the same basic model) your range-firing monsters (ibid) and your grunt melee monsters. The scarecrows, belly-tongue zombies, and the purple-zapping monks are about the only exceptions, my tactics for all other monsters in the game were identical.
Better team AI. Click attack all you like, most pets will just sit there with red dots on the minimap 20 meters away until something gets very close to them or until you lead them through a bunch of enemies. You have to sort of jink and weave to fake your pets into going ahead of you at times, very silly gameplay. Pets are unable to avoid even activated “discovered” traps and do not path directly behind the player, so sometimes there is just no way to prevent them from activating traps over and over again.
More minigames and “other things to do.” BT is pure combat-questing and nothing else. That’s not enough for a modern RPG. Even BG:DA2 has a semi-interesting item-enhancement system.
More side quests and optional dungeons. At least give the illusion of freedom of choice. Consider Baldur’s Gate II – freedom here is somewhat illusory, there is just a single main plot, but you have the feeling all the time there are a half dozen things to do, some of which you can skip, and which can be done in a variety of orders. Linearity isn’t always that bad, but it’s good to give more choices.
Less snideness – humor is well and good, but snideness is just annoying. It’s neither original nor funny to keep on making it obvious that the Bard knows he is in a ridiculously contrived fantasy-game situation. Take a look at the Fallout series for good black humor that is usually in the context of the game, not always on a meta-level outside of it. It’s better to have a story which isn’t contrived and cliched than to make a deliberately contrived and cliched story which is supposed to be nudge-nudge-wink-wink funny.
Engineering:
I get the impression that the BT engineering team didn’t have too much experience with console development, and didn’t have the ability to customize the engine at all. Sorry if that insults anyone. Obviously it’s got few if any bugs and is reasonably robust, so that makes it beter than most PC games from a quality point of view. Howeevr, the load times are very annoying (you shouldn’t have to load within town), the camera was bad, and the lack of minigames and interesting dungeon features likewise suggests minimal engineering talent available. Maybe next time you can do an engine from scratch, or license a new engine which can be better customized or something…
Thanks for the comments!
On XBOX, the “Back” button usually skips cut-scenes (like on LucasArts’ “Gladius”). Although even in Gladius that fact wasn’t advertised and I discovered it on a forum.
I just started playing: are there no healing potions in this game? Is the only healing from that woman you summon? No healing potions in the thick of battle is going to suck.
I have mixed feelings about the “always equip the best weapon.” It assumes that the “best” weapon I have is the best for every situation.
Take Dark Alliance II for instance. While runing around collecting lesser swords and arrows to sell later is somewhat annoying, I like trying to choose the best weapon for the upcoming fight. Undead ahead? My flaming mace! Hill Giants ahead? My two-handed axe of coldstrike (hoping a swing will freeze the enemy for a quick kill).
Having to make some strategic choices when it comes to equipment can make the millionth battle against familar foes still seem fresh.
Also, weight limitations forces players to make choices. If it’s completely streamlined, then it’s just running around and killing, which will eventually get old. Again, from DAII, I’d like to equip that uber heavy platemail +20, but then I can only carry 10 potions b/c of the weight limit, so I am forced to make a choice, and again, choices make the last stages of a game still seem fresh.