CraigM
1961
I second Nightgaunt’s recommendation of Dust, right down to having no love for anthropomorphism.
MMDuran
1962
Valdis Story is very nice, one of the first KS projects I ever backed and likely one of the best among them, and is definitely worth $5. The time mechanic you mention is pretty apparent in the story (you’re flat-out told that an area is dying and at some point it does) and was eased considerably in later updates. I’ve got no problem calling it a Metroidvania because, for better or worse, it’s entered the lexicon as short-hand for “gameplay like Symphony of the Night (which added the progression of Metroid to traditional Castlevania gameplay/themes and the many games that spawned” and, well, it’s pretty much a steampunk fantasy take on Symphony of the Night. It’s got a slightly finicky twitch-based, almost fighting-game feel to its controls (which involve a cancel mechanism, something I’ve always sucked at), but I’d happily pay $10 or $15 for it (and did).
Steam today: Counter-Strike: Global Offensive - $7.49 - (50% off).
Steam weekend #3: The Darkness II - $5.99 - (80% off).
CraigM
1964
The Humble Store special of the weekend is Total War series. My personal favorite of the ones on sale is Napoleon, but Medieval comes in at a close second.
Yes, yes, all you Shogun 2 lovers I see you. Notice I didn’t say best, I said favorite. Largely because of the setting, also cannons.
Using “Metroidvania” to describe “games that are like SotN” is like using “Roguelike” to describe “games that are like Spelunky.”
MMDuran
1966
Tell me of Darkness II. I’ve heard mixed reports. Do you need to have played Darkness I (which isn’t on Steam, I don’t believe) to get into it?
I never played the first game and enjoyed Darkness II quite a bit. The combat is fun and I enjoyed the story too.
MMDuran
1968
I’m curious – is that because SotN is the qualitative best of brand of a breed of games that’ve taken on that title and/or is that because it’s ill-fitting because Spelunky isn’t really a Roguelike, despite having permadeath, equipment, delving exploration, etc.?
If it’s the latter objection, what Metroid element (beyond the theme) is SotN lacking?
FWIW, I think Metroidvania is a pretty dumb term. But if you point me at a game like Rogue Legacy or Valdis Story, I think it’s fair shorthand to quickly explain the base concepts to someone, just like Roguelike is a quick way to describe TOME or Crawl.
And yet I would know exactly what they are talking about and roughly what to expect.
-Todd
Giaddon
1970
Darkness 2 is awesome. No need to play Darkness 1 (which isn’t on PC, let alone Steam).
Great comic book art style, great pacing, fun darkness powers, and good gunplay. It even includes a separate (and well hidden) second campaign featuring other characters that you can play through solo or with three friends. Definitely recommended.
Wait what? Well hidden indeed, I had no idea there was anything past the main campaign. Is the multiplayer some sort of co-op story mode?
Giaddon
1972
Yep! You take on the role of one of four unique darkness-infused characters and play through missions that run alongside the main campaign. It’s called Vendetta and accessible from the main menu. Check it out!
I was honestly enjoying The Darkness II so much I decided to pause it and scour for a copy of the original so I could get the whole experience. Got it on the PS3 just recently, so I can’t wait to dive in.
Thraeg
1974
My take on the comparison goes like this:
When pared down to the bare minimum, the core essence of roguelikes, the attribute that makes a game a roguelike regardless of whatever other specifics of presentation and gameplay may be in effect, is meaningfully procedural content generation combined with permanence of decisions/consequences including death. Spelunky uses that essence, but melds it with a very different sort of moment-to-moment gameplay expression than the classical roguelike tradition did. So it’s fine to say that it’s “a roguelike”, but confusing to hold it up as an exemplar of the genre as a whole because people can fixate on incidental features specific to Spelunky.
Similarly, the core essence of a metroidvania is its carefully plotted world design, with branching pathways diverging and coming back together, combined with lock-and-key obstacle/power design to ensure that revisiting earlier areas with new powers opens new paths or upgrades. SotN has that, but also branches off in its own direction with a lot of amount of emphasis on adding an RPG side. So it’s “a metroidvania”, but shouldn’t be treated as a template for the genre as a whole (if anything, the template would be Super Metroid).
Incidentally, Rogue Legacy is neither a roguelike nor a metroidvania despite borrowing bits from both.
Thraeg covered some of it while I was writing stuff out, but:
-The theme is actually a big part of it. Not the setting, since it would be silly to expect the entire genre to stay confined to “explore a hostile planet in the future,” but the concept of being completely alone in a world where everything wants to kill you, and can easily succeed at doing so. SotN’s cutscenes and item shop hurt it in this area, at least during the first castle; more importantly, you very rarely feel threatened in SotN, and the game’s general difficulty level is very low compared to Metroid games or to previous Castlevania games. Sadly, this is an issue relatively few games in this genre have gotten over, with difficulty levels remaining relatively low (unless games offer higher difficulty options), and NPCs and shops being commonplace (look at Valdis Story, Guacamelee!, and Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia for some of the most egregious examples here, since those games all have entire towns full of NPCs and shops).
-Super Metroid in particular has a strong focus on environmental gating that’s mostly tied to combat upgrades, so that everything you collect is useful beyond simply opening a door. SotN ties much of its progression in the early game to upgrades, which is where the Metroid comparisons come from, but most people conveniently forget that SotN is also a game where you’ll collect a blue gem that’s used to open two doors and does absolutely nothing else, and eventually becomes a game where your progress isn’t gated at all and you’re doing nothing but running around killing monsters…
-…which wouldn’t be a problem, because Metroid games totally do this at the end as well, except that in SotN, this accounts for the entire second half of the game. With the inverted castle, SotN’s developers decided “hey, players won’t mind if we make them explore the entire map again to collect arbitrary MacGuffins, right?” Unfortunately, my answer is “wrong,” and it amazes me that a lot of people are apparently okay with SotN doing this, but games like Devil May Cry 4 and Bravely Default get slammed for it. (Within the genre, this is thankfully a SotN-specific complaint, though a couple of later Castlevania games had similar, but much shorter, “play through altered versions of earlier areas for no real reason beyond extending the game’s length” sections.)
-Metroid games aren’t action RPGs. No Castlevania games prior to SotN are action RPGs (and many after it still aren’t). SotN, and most games called “Metroidvanias,” are. Grinding for XP, money, and equipment drops is an actual gameplay mechanic in SotN; Metroid games will make you farm for health and ammo refills sometimes, but actual upgrades are static and not at all random, in both Metroid and pre-SotN Castlevania. This is the core element where I take issue with the genre name; when maybe 25% of Castlevania games are like SotN, and 0% of Metroid games are, why do SotN’s existence and influence lead to naming a genre after two series that are mostly unrelated to SotN?
Goddamn but this is a tedious argument. Still, I’m willing to meet you hippies halfway: I’ll give up using the term “Metroidvania” when everyone else gives up “shmup.”
Probably best moved to another/new thread or else people will think a new Steam sale has started! :)
-Todd
Edit: Sorry for the somewhat caustic tone I took initially, I edited it out since it wasn’t necessary. Apologies.
I actually find it interesting, but I guess they’re right about the thread thing.
I thought Metroidvania meant a platformer where you don’t kill things by jumping on them.
