You might think it’s too hardcore to fit in the beer and pretzel category, but in the end all it really is, is a simple ‘push soldiers around on a map’ style game.
Blood bowl 1 and 2?
I am hoping that the PC version of OGRE whenever it gets done will be decent. I think that would fit the Beer & Pretzels category.
The quintessential B&P wargame.
Hearts of Iron series: not B&P. I mean, all wargames in the end are just pushing units around, right? :)
I guess beside length of play and rules density, I would add learning curve to my criteria.
Classic Battletech: B&P. Star Fleet Battles: B&P buried under kilometers of chrome.
[quote=“scharmers, post:33, topic:129853, full:true”]
How is this a wargame? I mean, I love the game, but I don’t see how they are wargames.
LOL, a game with 150 pages of rules is not B&P I’m.
Do the generals games not count here? Panzer General, etc?
Other than that, I’ve found it hard to land on good wargame experiences when sessions are less than a few hours. I’m going to look through some of these recomemndations.
People die, there are rules, it’s war.
They nail B&P precisely, but they’re long in the teeth. Panzer Corps is probably the way to go, these days.
Steel Panthers, when it first came out, was probably Grigsby’s most B&P design, ever. Its latest necrotic incarnations, fueled by the nightmares of billions of rivet-counters, aren’t.
I wish there was just a fixed-up version of SP1-- the basic game, bugs fixed, working in a modern OS, nothing else.
I was beginning to think I was crazy for suggesting Panzer Corps. Thanks for making me feel less nuts!
@scharmers I’m assuming sqad level is something below where you’re going, too, right? Like Close Combat, Company of Heroes, Codename: Panzers, Soldiers, or even Jagged Alliance?
A lot of the beer and pretzels types went the way of RTS to be honest, for better and for worse.
A lot of the XCOMs alikes – including the original XCOM - I would consider wargames. Nobody calls them that, because of the (assumed) stigma of being a wargame for nerds and not a “strategy game” for cool kids.
RTSs are not wargames IMO, except when they are. Close Combat: wargame. CoH: a damn fine RTS, but not a wargame. The Eugen stuff: makes me dizzy trying to categorize them.
I don’t know. I just consider a _war_game a B&P game when I can whip out the board, set up the pieces, and play through and be done with it in 30 minutes - 1.5 hours. Generally, shooting and casualties are involved.
I agree with where you are placing those as well as the definition. I really need to check out some of the suggestions here.
But they have Wargame right in the title! Plus they use terms like Airland that only Grogs would recognize…
Have any of you ever tried actually consuming beer and pretzels whilst playing these games?
Memoir 44 is definitely B&P, but I’m not entirely convinced Command & Colours Ancients or Napoleonic are.
Panzer Corps is basically a clone of Panzer General. Order of Battle takes the basic premise of PG and actually improves on it. If you wanted that type of game, I would say Order of Battle is the one to go with.
[quote=“Pod, post:43, topic:129853, full:true”]Memoir 44 is definitely B&P, but I’m not entirely convinced Command & Colours Ancients or Napoleonic are.
I think Battles of Westeros might be the most B&P of the C&C games (although here the system is slightly different).
I think Warhammer Age of Sigmar is about as beer and pretzels as miniatures wargames go. The base rules are only 4 pages!
Here’s a couple that I just thought of that I don’t think have been mentioned yet:
- Strategic Command: War in Europe. It’s a bit more involved than PG but only slightly more so. It’s more wide scope and also includes research along with some limited diplomacy.
2)Hannibal:Rome and Carthage and the Second Panic War. I haven’t actually played this one so I don’t know for sure that it’s B&P but it looks relatively simple.