Big Pharma tops the list of lobbyist spending. Surprise!

Big Pharma lies about innovation collapsing if drug prices are curtailed:

So here’s the thing… a lot of companies create with the intention of selling, and in this market they sell to big pharm. It’s like the windfall. This is not unexpected.

Absolutely. But as he points out, look at when the big drugs they push were discovered as their overall portfolio and the fact these two companies spend them most money on lobbying. Their claims are not backed up by their own financials. Furthermore, these big mega pharms always give little to no credit to the people who do the real bulk of the discoveries. The underpaid PhD in a University lab.

I don’t disagree with the lobbying part.

Where I am getting at is it is disingenuous to claim Big Pharm doesn’t pay for research because their books don’t explicitly carve it out as much as people expect it to. That’s going to be a part of purchasing these other drugs/companies.

There is plenty to dislike with the way these companies operate; I just want to make sure we’re not manufacturing anything.

Not sure where else to put this, but this is excellent.


Hating on big pharma doesn’t have quite the ring it did before they created vaccines that saved the world.

But it doesn’t excuse the extremes. Can you separate the good from the bad? Sure. But this shit? Fuck them.

Price gouging for diabetes medication is not ok.

It’s absolutely, definitely not. The way pharma companies desk with diabetes is terrible.

But saying, “you guys don’t spend any money on research” just doesn’t play at well, after they’ve performed this amazing act of research to come up with safe vaccines against a novel virus in record time. Credit where it’s due. They pulled off some amazing shit.

Exactly. Imagine if they poured 60 billion additional dollars into research instead of lining their pockets though.

You know they are making money on this right? Even if they give the rest of it away, they have made bank. Yes, amazing research using a method that was previously discussed but mostly speculated. Still, the bottom line is they will do quite well from COVID. Don’t believe me and this forum post, go look it up.

Like anything else, it’s about making money.

Yep. Getting a vaccine off the ground and out in the wild within a year is an amazing scientific feat. I think hardly anyone would dispute that. But it’s not like it’s an entirely philanthropic endeavor. Governments contributed funding to the R&D efforts, too.

They did what they’re supposed to do. And they’ll reap the rewards. Doesn’t mean we should look the other way.

But then again it’s Timex. Who said people here aren’t in a position to say negative things about McCain’s legacy because of him having heroically served in Vietnam.

Absolutely. I’m totally fine with that.
If you save the world, I’m cool with you getting ultra rich.

If a profit motive incentivizes you to save the world, I’m cool with that motive.

I think everyone knows they need to make a profit. The flip side of that is how much, and I’m not really talking about the vaccine. Predatory things like buying out a drug then raising the price on it substantially, continuing price increases on an older and much needed drug, etc. There is a reason our healthcare is expensive and pharma has a hand in that, though it’s not all them.

Pfizer was infamous for wining and dining doctors to sell its drugs. They would hire pretty girls straight out of the sorority. That’s what led to congressional hearings and the industry clamping down on its marketing voluntarily.

In a combination of civil and criminal settlements, Pfizer has agreed to pay $2.3 billion – the largest health care fraud settlement ever in the history of the Department of Justice. (2009 Department of Justice press release)

They would give $500 honorariums to doctors to “give a speech” which really meant go to a fancy dinner while none of the other doctors pay any attention as they gorge on fancy foods. This was all wayyyy before the opiod crisis and that douchebag pharma boy.

It’s a systemic recurring problem that could be easily fixed with single payer and price controls which is why it will never happen.

And yes, pharma is just one actor in healthcare bloat every single step has inflated prices. You need benefit / risk analysis if you want to cut down costs, but patients hate that because they allllll want the newest shiniest drug and treatment. Marketing will push the more expensive treatments.

Nobody wants to pay for cheap cooking, exercise nutrition classes that would possibly develop life-long habits so people don’t get freaking diabetes and cholesterol.

Ya, I agree with all this. In cases like diabetes, there’s essentially a profit motive to not cure the disease, as diabetics are basically like addicts forever… a constant funding stream, and that seems gross to me.

In the case of things like insulin, the idea that its price is anything above trivial, given that it’s not hard to make and it’s certainly not under any kind of patent, seems like it’s got to be the result of market manipulation.

For stuff like insulin that’s not under patent, it seems like the government should get involved and set up a system where it pays some contractor a nominal fee to produce it en masse. Just say, “Hey, you’ll make some profit here…not a lot, but some, and we’ll be a guaranteed customer for you forever to give you a ton of stability in terms of demand.”.

Honestly, it might not even be required to do that, if the FDA relaxed some of their regulations on producing biosimilars. The thing with insulin is that it’s not a chemical that can then just be made in a generic form. So, while it’s not under patent, for any other company to produce insulin would require them to go through a massive amount of regulatory hurdles, similar to inventing a new drug. That’s why you’ve only got 3 companies in the whole world who make insulin.