This does not do Black Panther or MCU any favors. I wish they hadn’t pushed for this.
I love how you put this.
Flesh this out for me a bit.
We often bemoan the fact that comedies, in particular, are given short-shrift at the Academy Awards. I guess because no matter how well crafted they are, they aren’t serious enough for important consideration. Why not a superhero movie that is exceptional? Why not push that forth?
That’s my knee-jerk reaction. So I’m interested to hear why it’s a bad idea from your perspective.
-xtien
“You let refugees in, you let in all their problems.”
Because, to me, the framing is all wrong. Because it then basically shunts everything remotely genre into this ‘second tier’ status. Because the answer to the problem of ‘the Academy is incapable of recognizing merit in genre films, instead preferring to reward mediocre pablum that fits a certain aesthetic’ isn’t to codify said films being ignored to some kids table. Because, really, the very foundational ideas and skills that drive major productions versus the small art house film are so different that comparing directly is a fools errand.
Because the idea of separating those films from their bigger budget third cousins isn’t inherently bad, but the lack of thought, naming, and seemingly rushed way they implemented it stank. Because the last time the Academy tried to do this, they botched it with expanding the number of nominees, only so they could include token blockbusters that were only getting the nomination for publicity but would never get serious consideration.
Because Best Popular Movie is a terrible name for this. Because Black Panther deserves better than some second tier award made up to appease the masses.
There are some good ideas in there, and splitting the Three Bilboards of the world into a separate category from the Black Panther and Dunkirk’s makes sense. But they just didn’t stick the landing. And doing it because Disney wanted it for their Marvel films? That ain’t right. As deserving as some of them are for more recognition beyond effects work.
So again I really loved this moving but…
The acting was good, but was it exceptional?, it wasn’t really Oscar worthy. I can’t think of anyone who would’ve done Black Panther better but if Boseman is going to win I think he would be better served with more serious and high reaching movies, same with the supporting cast. They are really good actors, and they did their roles justice but this is just not in the league with most the previous winners.
Screen Play, again well done but was it really… stellar, like decades from now… I don’t think so. I think it will be enjoyed for generations to come but something you look back on and say yeah that’s a shining example of something… eeh.
Costume Design… maybe. That one might actually fit, make-up and hairstyling, yeah maybe that too.
Best Original Song, well maybe. That one is always iffy and it was certainly worthwhile.
In general, it’s just hard to say without sounding snobby, and this comes from someone who really enjoyed the whole of the movie. I would just be so disappointed for Angela Basset to win for this role, especially when she has done more memorable and moving stuff in the past. I wouldn’t even say it’s her best work let alone in comparison to what else is up.
I think if any of the cast wins… they’re going to call it some political move and not really because of their craft. Hell there are already people who think and say that and will spend the rest of their bitter lives trying to get people to say the movie is this or that, but these actors; they deserve better. Some of them should have been recognized in the past, or already have been.
I am sure I am not wording this just right, but there’s got to be a way to award the art, the audience and effort without turning it into something the Mouse House can just buy.
I agree… Its a fun movie as a whole and it really did well because it gave a segment of the population a voice that had previously not gotten it. For that it should absolutely get some brownie points, but that doesn’t really condense down to a specific oscar category?
First off, thank you for replying so thoughtfully, Nesrie. If you’ve addressed these points before and I missed them, my apologies.
I have to say, I think I confused what you were saying above, when you said, “…pushed for this.” Because I saw these as two separate issues. One is the dopey Most Popular Senior Superlative Movie issue. The other being the idea that the studio should put forth the movie for regular Oscar categories. My question in asking you to flesh it out dealt with that.
So that’s what I’m addressing below. Not the “What Did I Like Bestest” award. Which again, I think, is a dumb idea.
I think in many cases it was exceptional. I think Letitia Wright deserves notice for her performance. Keep in mind that many years ago Supporting Actor was sometimes given for a performance in a single scene that was a showcase. Letitia Wright energized this movie. She was funny and powerful and that deserves recognition. If Marisa Tomei wins for My Cousin Vinny, for instance, how do we rule out Letitia Wright?
Of course I’d single out Michael B. Jordan. Whether or not he did something in another role in a previous year is of no consequence to me when it comes to what he brings to this movie. He’s freaking fearless.
I get what you mean here when you talk about her, and extrapolate it to some of the other performances. I’ve even probably made a similar point in the past. And please do keep in mind that it’s only September so I can hardly say I’ve got even a short list of nominees in my head for this year. Regardless, while body-of-work is important, I’m kind of just thinking about what they did in this particular movie, and how that contributes to the movie and to the year of film. But again, I see what you’re saying.
Well, I have to say I don’t care about that necessarily. Plenty of folks said that about Moonlight winning. Or any number of other winners. There’s often a political component. I’m not intending to be dismissive, but this is true in other awards, even in the arena of sports. That’s just part of it. So I’m not worried about some actor being awarded from work on this movie being construed as a political move.
Regardless, I appreciate your response.
-xtien
She was really good. Out of all the roles and cast, she was my biggest surprise hit. But 20 years from now, 30, am I going to remember performance? Am I going to say yet that was an incredible moment on the screen. I just don’t think that’s there. I am not even sure I could could even recite a couple of lines of hers… right now. I can tell you I loved her smile, her spunk and defiance and the fact she could fight and be tech and be beautiful and be unique and all of that but I just don’t see it as a role that will have people looking back to talk about her acting, but was a great moment to see that kind of role on the screen, hell yes.
Jordan captured anger and hate and is probably one of the best villains out there as a relatable but ultimately horrifying character capable of more destruction than anyone can imagine in a world full of beings that have a lot more raw power than he does, but I don’t see hi performance fitting along with the winners of the past. Are all the past winners worthy or on the same caliber, no, but I am just not sold this is the up there.
True but again, these actors and actresses… I think they will get their shining moments. I just don’t feel this is it.
Again a lot of this is subjective.
Now having said that, I realize the Oscars have a problem. I also vaguely the last time I watched them. I realized I had seen maybe 2 of the movies up that year and no-longer thought there was a point to watch the Oscars if the only movies they present and acknowledge are movies I don’t often watch.
Now do I believe that a super hero movie could one day stand alongside the others… yeah I do. When that happens, I don’t think I will be focused on the hair or the make-up or CGI rhinos when it happens. I think the message will be important and relatable like Black Panther but one step higher, like that moment when you realize you are watching something great, something you may even remember decades from now as being a great moment. And… I’ve already seen some of that from some of the cast in this movie, and I didn’t see that in this movie. For example, Whitaker.
I appreciate your question. I really do! I had some reactions when I saw what Disney is pushing for for this movie, and it just was not positive.
But these kind of awards are by definition NOT test of time. Only time will tell which movie will be remembered 10-20 years from now (btw I still fondly remembered Last Action Hero, speaking of Shane Black, serious movie it isn’t).
FWIW, I think Black Panther is topical, like Winter Soldier was topical. The superhero stuff is all very silly at the end of the day (at least there is a bit of Bond movie in it, just to mix it up), but it is a topical allegory for the world we live in. I frankly don’t give a toss whether Academy members love or hate it enough to give it an award. This is the problem with Oscars: for as long as I remember it fell to award baits movies time and again (movie produced just for the sake of awards). It is not that they don’t vote for popular choice, it is that they only fell for claptraps.
I walked out of Black Panther thinking that if it didn’t win these oscars than it would have been an amazing year for film. I haven’t seen anything come close to it in years.
Well the awards are not topical, most of them. When an actor or actress receives an award, it’s for their performance. Best Picture could maybe be considered topical; I have mostly been focusing on the performance of the actors, those awards. From what I saw, those were not Oscar worthy performances, but they were very, very good.
I thought they had a strong chance for that, like no push necessary unless the Academy is just anti-superhero, hair and make-up too.
They should just do what Sony did with Spider-Man and just license to Marvel Studios to make the DC movies. Sure, Spider-Man was a license back, but hey, they actually make good movies!
I couldn’t care less what Oscars Black Panther gets or doesn’t get, but I think it’s a great movie that will have lasting cultural significance. Dark Knight was superhero movies growing up. Black Panther is superhero movies growing out, reaching out to and recognizing an audience who’s been ignored and characters who have been traditionally marginalized in comic books. And especially comic book movies. But more importantly, Black Panther didn’t have to pander or exclude to do it. It wasn’t like Tyler Perry’s “these are for us” approach, which would have been an easy direction for Marvel to take. It embraced racial specificity, but it did it to tell a story that felt timeless and universal.
I also thought Ryan Coogler’s direction had the sort of competence and confidence you rarely see when arthouse directors are brought to action franchises. Contrast this to Rian Johnson and Colin Treverrow, who came across as hapless plate spinners trying to do tricks beyond their skill level. And Black Pantger’s cast was fantastic, arranged neatly around the contrast between Chadwick Boseman’s quiet gravity and Michael B. Jordan’s righteous fury. You guys mentioned Letitia Wright, but it speaks volumes for the script that Danai Gurira, Daniel Kaluuya, and Winston Duke were given such developed characters to work with, each with his or her own arc (too bad you can’t say the same for Lupito Nyong’o). It takes a lot to make me sometimes forget that Andy Serkis was in a movie. Black Panther’s cast managed precisely that.
So put me down as someone who thinks Black Panther deserves recognition as a great film and a cultural milestone. If the Academy doesn’t want to recognize that, well, that’s their prerogative. I’m sure there will be plenty of Oscar bait for them to nibble at come December.
-Tom
I’d like your post if I could
But it IS about the Oscars. We’re not about the Golden Globes or People’s Choice Awards. The Oscars are what they are.
I thought Okoye and M’Baku were great characters given life by Danai Gurira and Winston Duke respectively. Okoye in particular is a proper homage to the iconic Grace Jones. I was glad to see more of them in Infinity Wars. I’m pretty meh towards Shurri though, she is ok as a character but nothing special.
Ah, I can see that! Very nice.
Oh, I agree. Shurri doesn’t really get any sort of character arc beyond “plucky tech genius little sister”, but I think what makes her special is Letitia Wright’s mischievous energy and her rapport with Boseman. Shurri didn’t stand out for anything the screenplay had written, but she stood out because of Letitia Wright. After Black Panther, I will see anything Wright is in.
-Tom
My daughter just picked Shuri to be her costume for Halloween this year. She’s stoked.
No surprise. Marvel/Disney would be foolish to not give Coogler whatever he wanted to stay.
I wonder if directors are contracted for multiple movies, in the same way as the lead actors are. Seems risky to have the director potentially walk after the first flick.
Just as risky to have a director locked in before the first movie even shoots. Possibly more so. Coogler was a relative unknown.