How about you qualify your statements better and provide evidence when you can. For instance, in the above you stated that Economies are impossible in PvE MMO’s? What? How about pointing out UO’s heavy focus on PvP, but still relatively robust economy (because it was possible to actually lose items), and consider the natural contradictions to that statement that exist (planetside). You’ve just made a blank statement without those qualifiers.
Also, money sinks and PvP problems are related the instant you make them related (check out what a “relation” is between two objects in a discrete math sense if you’re confused by that statement). If you believe you can solve PvP problems completely inside the PvP system you need to state that, and argue why it is a more efficient solution. Not everyone reads every article you post on your site.
I’m tired, and very well could have missed something while reading your post (so please correct me if I missed it), but all I read was “you are wrong, and here is the correct system”. That’s bodacious, and doesn’t benefit anyone. No one can properly respond to that statement without the info that is apparently tucked away on your private site.
Einstein didn’t just say “HAY U GUYZ! E= MC^2! LOL!” He made sure the relevant calculations were present, instead of just writing E=MC^2 on a sheet of paper and turning it in for peer review.
They are related in the design. I wrote often that I don’t want to see the designer when I play a game. I know not everyone reads my site but these issues are complex and I cannot write pages to explain each one. I’m not going to spam here an article about how to fix the PvP, because noone will read it either.
The reason why this system isn’t perfect is because it’s unfun and hinders the PvP. While exactly the opposite should happen. PvP must be fun, fast. Incentivated. A moneysink is a deterrent. It basically breaks the purpose.
I’m tired, and very well could have missed something while reading your post (so please correct me if I missed it), but all I read was “you are wrong, and here is the correct system”. That’s bodacious, and doesn’t benefit anyone. No one can properly respond to that statement without the info that is apparently tucked away on your private site.
In this case it’s like that. I DID explain how to fix the item decay problem. That was complete. At this point you added another layer and told me that the PvP problem is unaddressed. I dismissed that saying that it should be fixed on its own and I wrote about it elsewhere.
Now I don’t expect peoples to believe me. But at least give me the benefit of the doubt. I may have fixed or not the PvP using just the PvP. If someone is interesed, at this point, I could summarize that part or link it.
So, I pointed out three issues in the previous page and explained why they are broken. The first is the experience nerf and there isn’t much to discuss. It’s a hit for solo players, mostly. The second is the PvE item decay, that I suggested to refine and balance (explained above) and the third is the PvP item decay.
This one is already patched on the servers. It means that Blizzard shared my ideas and fixed it as fast as they were able to (hotfix). I still criticize them because you cannot let escape a so glaring problem.
On the other side I also believe that Blizzard never intended it to solve the problem Fury pointed. In fact now we are back as before and I agree that the problem still exists.
I wrote a lot about it and I have plenty of links to my site if someone is interested. I also wrote them on the beta forums and suggested them in the game.
This isn’t WoW’s problem. I wrote a lot about it because the issue is an old DAoC issue. My way to fix it works the same both for DAoC and WoW. While these games have only tried to fix it with timesinks and res sicknesses. I believe there are better ways. If someone is interested I’ll provide links where I wrote my idea.
And I also have posted those ideas on this board in the past.
as Jafd said the moneysink is an incentive: for the winner.
And honor points are later going to incentivate the system (as has been pointed out elsewhere).
Blizzard posting a hotfix does not equate to them agreeing with you directly. They might be waiting until the other incentives are fully integrated to reimplement the feature. They’ve publicly stated on the beta boards that they like to wait a couple of days sans patch to reevaluate issues and get player feedback and change the system. That logic isn’t consistent with hotfixing an issue like that.
Yeah. I actually feel like a dick for criticizing Hrose to the extent that I have already. I’m total catass. I’m done with all the argueing and rebutting now though. Not enough energy to continue endless back and forth bickering.
I don’t know what the current implementation is but you used to (during the first stress test) be able to just run back as a ghost to your corpse inside the instance and respawn without xp hit and no worries about wandering mobs that respawn inside the instance. I haven’t tried an instance since then because I think they take far too long…
I don’t know what the current implementation is but you used to (during the first stress test) be able to just run back as a ghost to your corpse inside the instance and respawn without xp hit and no worries about wandering mobs that respawn inside the instance. I haven’t tried an instance since then because I think they take far too long…[/quote]
It’s still like this. The spirit rez thing is an improvement. Players misunderstood and went a bit nuts on the message boards.
In reading all of the posts, I would simply note again that a lot of the arguments appear to be complaints that Blizzard is not simply letting you stay in the field forever, clicking from monster to monster like Diablo. “Oh no, I have to return to base once every 5 hours to repair. Oh no, if I die, it now involves more than a 30 second run to my body.”
Again, you may not agree with the decision, but it is a fully valid decision to make the game take a different pace, and to cause decisions (that lead to death) to have greater impact. I for one am happy that the drooling level mashers have at least a bit of an obstacle in the way of their sick obsession with clicking monster after monster to level as fast as humanly possible.
Are you really convinced of what you write or are you just arguing for the sake of it?
Because it’s obvious that I cannot demonstrate anything, aside the fact that the time will prove me right. At least about this.
With the hotfix they also patched the taunt skill because it was broken. They’ll break it again in a few days?
What is sure is that “in a few days” they won’t implement the honor system.[/quote]
I’m not trying to be pedantic, Hrose. I really think you have no idea what Blizzard is thinking or implementing just off of their actions in one patch. If I heard word on the forums this is what they’re doing then I’ll believe (and then see them actually do it at a later time). Until then, all you’re doing is guessing wildly, but you’re stating that guess has a hard fact. Looking at just what they say, or just what they do is dumb. Comparing and contrasting both and extracting a conclusion is smart.
Blizzard has stated they aren’t finished with most of their systems yet and these changes are part of a larger overhaul of which we have yet to see. I’ve observed only part of the overhaul myself, and it’s too early for me to say either way how good or bad it is.
I’m done argueing it. I don’t agree with your posting style. Now I’m moving along.
Oh, do you believe in “the magic patch to fix everything one day before release”?
And Santa Claus?[/quote]
It’s beta, and thus presumabley in a high state of change right now. Most MMO’s even radically change somtimes post release. You should look at the game once the changes have slowed down, IMO. You’re only seeing parts of the system not the whole thing. Or rather: Not near a good enough approximation of the whole system.
From what I’ve seen in my limited time with the game, it looks like Blizzard has abandoned the casual gamer and is going for the catasses with their recent changes.
They should have taken a look at AC2. In AC2, I could actually progress my character at a reasonable rate playing only about 2 hours every other night. Sure, the game was incomplete, had no content, and sucked, but Darktide was kind of fun considering that I actually made it past level 20 just playing about 1 hour a day for a couple of months.
In terms of sheer subscription time, I think I subscribed to AC2 longer than any game other than UO. And in UO I could build up characters by running EZ Macros while I was at school. Blizzard apparently does not realize that with shifting demographics in the game-playing public, there are more people like me who would subscribe to their game than there are EQ obsessed fanatics who are already tied up in a timesink-style game.
They haven’t touched the leveling speed in a while (except for over 30 in last patch to compensate for additional experience from instances, or so they said). The game is exceedingly solo friendly, which is great for casual gamers. There’s also very little downtime between encounters, I spend very little time waiting for stuff. I just don’t see a lot of time sinks, and I’ve been leveling pretty fast.
Judging by what the closed beta people say, a leisurely pace to cap would be around 12 days played. A gamer playing around 10 hours/week would hit that in 6 months or so. This isn’t much different of a pace from your AC2 example.
Actually, it’s even easier than that. If you only play 10 hours a week and log out in an inn the rest of the time, you’ll have 20 bubbles of rest (double xp from killing mobs) per week also. So basically, cut that time by like 40%.
Yes, it’s still solo friendly, fast leveling, and it’s easy to play an hour or two feel like you accomplished something by doing quests. It’s not a catass game by any stretch.
When players die they are now faced with a 10% item durability loss, and if resurrected are faced with a 30 minute sickness. Essentially, a heavy double-barrelled money and time sink kick to the pants. Bad enough on PvE servers, this’ll prove to be a real sore point on the PvP servers when players are likely to die repeatedly during a major raid.
First, player rezzes don’t give you the extended sickness. That’s only if you choose to rez at the spirit healer. Second, the time scales. I tried it at level 20 and the rez sickness only lasted 11 minutes. It’s only at level 60 that you get 30 minutes of rez sickness if you use the spirit healer.
Not all spells need reagents. Some players are acting like this is the case. Playing a rogue, I’ve been buying reagents all the time (flash powder and poison reagents) so I don’t see this as a big deal. You just make sure to load up in town. Once you get used to it, it’s nothing. And yes, I routinely spend a gold or two every time I buy stuff to make poison.
The warrior taunt thing I don’t know much about, not having played a warrior. The general movement I see from Blizzard is to make the instances harder, and this fits with that.
At low levels it’s not, no… I’ve been in beta for months and my highest level character is 39. (I don’t play much.) These games drastically change at higher levels.
From what I’ve seen in my limited time with the game, it looks like Blizzard has abandoned the casual gamer and is going for the catasses with their recent changes.
They should have taken a look at AC2. In AC2, I could actually progress my character at a reasonable rate playing only about 2 hours every other night. Sure, the game was incomplete, had no content, and sucked, but Darktide was kind of fun considering that I actually made it past level 20 just playing about 1 hour a day for a couple of months.
I’m not that sure this is the case; as others have noted this is still the most solo-friendly MMORPG out there, and it’s also probably the fastest low level leveling game. As for AC2, no one played it, not in numbers that Blizzard/Vivendi or SOE would consider meaningful.
The truth may well be that the only way to make money off of MMOs is to appeal to the hardcore. Until someone makes a truly casual-friendly game that makes money this will be the case. WoW still seems to be the closest to that ideal.
Not all spells need reagents. Some players are acting like this is the case. Playing a rogue, I’ve been buying reagents all the time (flash powder and poison reagents) so I don’t see this as a big deal. You just make sure to load up in town. Once you get used to it, it’s nothing. And yes, I routinely spend a gold or two every time I buy stuff to make poison.
True to an extent, but it gets very expensive. At 51 I spend maybe 4-6 gold per time I go on a serious (instance or heavy questing) foray, mostly on poisons. Not a deal breaker by any means but annoying, considering the abilities you buy at even levels are also not cheap. The problem with reagents for buffs is not so much that the idea is totally wrong (though it’s not one I like; I used to have rummaging for bat wings in EQ for Levitate) but that is changes the way people in the beta have been used to playing. Drive by buffing, constant maintenance of all buffs even when not in combat, etc. Of course none of that is material to the masses who will be playing for the first time–they’ll just accept it as normal. So yeah, it’s not a huge problem.
I was talking about the PvP and major talent changes that are going on right now. The dust hasn’t settled yet, and I don’t have a clear view of what their goal is.
I can guess off of what they’re saying, but I’ll wait until I see the changes from battlegrounds, Honor system, and overall moneysinks before I go calling the designers at blizzard faggots.
It’s not all going to get implemented in a single patch, and becuase of that chastising them for “breaking the fun” on a patch by patch basis when it’s still in a state of being molded is silly to me.
Maybe I’m crazy. I really don’t know. Just my opinion.
At 51 I spend maybe 4-6 gold per time I go on a serious (instance or heavy questing) foray, mostly on poisons. Not a deal breaker by any means but annoying, considering the abilities you buy at even levels are also not cheap.
I was low on cash most of the time until I hit 60. That’s just the way the game works if you level and don’t farm for cash.
