Blood on the Clocktower Game 2 (complete)

There are more scenarios I can make for a baron and poisoner. Hmm

Can someone else confirm @Juan_Raigada’s logic regarding confirming the undertaker being better with Jostly versus rowe?

Yes, if jostly is good it means poisoner and Baron and we need to start relying on the undertaker to clear things out (because he would be guaranteed good then).

My logic:

1- there must be a Baron (you agree with me here)
2- if there’s a Baron possible drunks are identified. Jostly is not drunk
3- jostly being good means there’s a poisoner, so the undertaker is clear.
4- jostly being evil means he should be either Imp or spy to have guessed correctly who to bluff as, and since the undertaker must be the spy if evil, he is cleared OR we win because jostly is the Imp

Yes, but I need a moment to unwrap Craig’s infodump first.

You also need to explain why offing you is counterproductive given the above logic. It’s not about saving yourself but why something else would be better.

I’m 100% fine with dying instead of jostly if it helps the town. Then assuming we have an Undertaker, they can confirm my role.

We either have an undertaker or spy.

Okay, so trying to parse what has been said for the reasons behind the logic:

I take it this means there is a Librarian that corroborates the recluse by way of having seen a drunk. In that case I understand Juan’s claim for that there is a baron better. I don’t know why you’ve been cagey about that, but fine.

So break down the theory:
If I am the imp, then executing me wins the game. That’s certain, and if I am the imp, it’s the best possible move. If you believe I am the imp, you should vote to execute me.

If I am not the imp, there are three possibilities as I see it:

  1. I am the investigator and has correctly identified rowe as the poisoner.
  2. I am the investigator, was poisoned, and incorrectly identified rowe as the poisoner
  3. I am another evil (spy)

In case 1 & 2, if we assume Baron, there is no room for a spy, so the undertaker is clear
In case 3, the undertaker cannot be the spy, and is clear

So, killing me either wins the game or clears the undertaker, if there is a baron

So the benefit of killing me to clear the undertaker hinges completely on that being true. Craig, you seem to at least entertain some doubt, but Juan is dead certain. Matt hasn’t mentioned anything, but by virtue of being the recluse, he would also be certain of the Baron.

So, let me now address this:

Actually, if we accept your assumptions, it is not counterproductive. I have been trying to find out all afternoon where they came from, and I’m glad it’s finally out so they can be addressed.

I would thus say this:
Those who believe Juan’s assertion that there definitely is a baron, backed up by Matt and whoever the possible Librarian - who better not have been poisoned or evil - is, your best move is to execute me. It’s either a win, or you’ve cleared the undertaker.

However, if you, like me, are worried that this looks like another delaying tactic to get good to kill each other and ignore the poisoner, then you might later join me in voting for rowe instead. That doesn’t offer a way to clear the undertaker, but I do think it offers the best chance of ever trusting any information that a cleared undertaker or fortune teller have to offer.

I am ready @Lodgium

It’s tough because I don’t have all the information you or (apparently) @Juan_Raigada has. Trivially, an Undertaker could tell us whether @jostly was the Investigator (or an evil) or whether @rowe33 was a Poisoner or the Washerwoman, and could tell either one perfectly well. If the Undertaker is actually a Drunk it won’t make any difference which one we choose. If @rowe33 is actually the Poisoner, he could mess up the results from a true Undertaker but first he’d have to guess the identity.

Edit: I agree that @jostly’s ‘defense’ above makes sense. I just don’t have access to the hidden information which lets me know if the underlying premises are valid.

Now collecting votes for the execution of @jostly

There are 9 living players, so 5 YES votes are required to execute.

Voting begins in clockwise order around the town square. Vote publicly in this thread, YES to execute, NO to spare.

When you vote, please @ the person next in like to keep things running.

Voting begins with @Juan_Raigada

I do not believe this to be the case.

Either that or @Lodgium is really messing with us ;)

I’m inclined to vote yes for both and let you sort it out. But maybe that gives evil too much power over the vote, so I should probably pick one.

Honestly I am too. We (Good) stand to benefit from either I belive.

Quick rules confirmation: we can only execute one person, right? So we can’t just kill off Rowe and jostly and figure we will hit someone?

Nope, which is why the Lantz insta execution immediately ended the day 1

Right. And then if we have multiple nominations, the most votes gets executed. I just actually looked at the rules, so I’m good now.

But if they tie no one does

I vote yes.

I was confused and thought the nominating player went last? Or is it the nominated?

Doesn’t matter in this case.

Jostly is right, if you believe there’s a Baron, the best move is to execute him. I’m pretty surprised @CraigM has any doubts about this, tbh. The alternative is pretty bizarre, I think, and hinges on really strange and inefficient Evil play.

I think nominated player goes last.

Got it. Anyways, doesn’t matter.