Maybe Mackelmore should have been tapped to write Tina’s dialogue.
What? The issue is not that she used slang, the issue is that the entire joke of those lines is that a white girl(in the future space!) spoke in a contemporary urban patois. Get it? Get the joke? It’s funny, right, because she ain’t a black girl, she a white girl. But she talks like she’s black!
There’s nothing else, literally the sole source of humor for those bits is the juxtaposition of the 13 year old girl and ebonics. People aren’t saying the entire character of Tina is offensive, just the verbal blackface portions.
For a game that clearly understands humor and has a TON of very funny writing, the rare missteps into broad stereotypes were and are lame(the redneck shit is not as problematic but is just as not funny).
Kadath- While Samuel L. Jackson’s character in Pulp Fiction was, as is typical for his roles, an African-American… I must have missed the scene where he talked about “badonkadonks”. His character spoke standard American English(as a profane hitman who screamed about brains). Your explanation makes it seem even more racist.
I thought the humor came from the fact that Tiny Tina is a 13-year-old that has tea parties and babydoll skirts but plays with explosives, lives on a planet of psycho-bandits, and has a crude mouth.
And by “people” I assume you mean a bunch of white guys?
Pogo
1845
By “people” he means a couple of white guys. On Twitter. Who don’t matter. But they think they matter. And that’s part of the problem.
Aleck
1846
Not to beat the dead horse here, but I thought we got past the whole “urban patois” as being a solely black thing back in the 90s (or even earlier). We even had a (derogatory) term in the 90s to talk about whites acting black (I’m not sure if kids use that these days anymore, since I’m no longer of the appropriate age to be regularly exposed to any of that). If you want to complain about Tiny Tina as acting like she’s black even though she’s white, shouldn’t we be blasting Roland for being such an oreo? Hell, let’s take it another step: they’re clearly both race traitors.
The humor in Tina’s character is that everything she does stands in stark contrast to some other aspect of her character. She plays with dolls and is a sociopath. She dresses like a little girl and talks like she’s trying out for an MTV reality show. She throws tea parties and blows stuff (including – spoiler! – the guest of honor) up. These are the things that make her amusing. To call it racist… Well, like I said earlier, if you want to find something to be offended by in any Gearbox property, you don’t have to look too hard, but this is just a silly case.
Lantz
1847
I think it’s awesome that some people are so out of touch that they think only black people use ‘ebonics’ words and that they are somehow inherently racist.
I wonder if the same people would have lost their shit if Roland called someone broseph in the game.
Nesrie
1848
It would have been completely out of place for a character like Roland. Terrible example.
I don’t know when the gaming community became intolerant of diverse opinion’s, but there is nothing wrong with asking questions about that character. They’re not calling the person who made her racist. The same people getting upset about people getting upset isthe same group that wants gaming to be taken more seriously as an art form in other topics. Guess what happens when people take games seriously; questions will be asked.
Personally, I think the game is full of stereotypes and extreme jokes that probably offend. I am not going to label the people who made the jokes or those offended as some how deficient. I think discussions are about the material are fine.
Lantz
1849
Um, they very specifically are calling it racist. They are using that exact word. They are claiming that Tiny Tina’s character is only about a white girl using words that they somehow think only black people use. Which is both a ludicrously naive and sheltered view of language in America today and trolling because the character’s vast majority of screen time is focused around an old nursery rhyme.
On top of that, badonkadonk is a silly word but it’s ludicrous to ignore the fact that it’s spread into all facets of American culture considering it was featured in a 2006 hit country song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNVguvNE7qc
Next they are going to claim that calling something bad when you mean it’s good is racist.
Nesrie
1850
Read what you quoted again please. They are not calling the person who made the character racist. They are calling the character racist. There is a difference. This is not a witch hunt against the creator from what I can see. This is a conversation about how a specific character is presented.
Lantz
1851
I am excited about what hoop you will now jump to try and explain how calling someone’s writing racist isn’t calling them racist and the fact that they specifically clarified that it is the writer and not the character who is racist.
There’s a huge deal between ‘asking questions about that character’ and calling someone’s creations racist based on the simple fact that you are so sheltered that you think white people aren’t allowed to say badonkadonk, the edgy extreme inner city country song lyric of 2006.
You quoted the next sentence which explains that the problematic parts is not the entire character but just the ebonics “jokes”. Should I write that concept down again for a third time? I’m a bit at a loss.
And by “people” I assume you mean a bunch of white guys?
I have no idea what the ethnicity or gender of the people who complained is. Would it matter? Why do people* always imply that there’s something improper or suspicious if non-blacks claim to be offended by anti-black racism?
*and by “people” here I mean racists.
This is the second time you’ve tried to edgily make some sort of comment about Roland being an “oreo” or “acting white”. In what way does Roland NOT act black? Which action taken by Roland is inconsistent with African ancestry?
The humor in Tina’s character is that everything she does stands in stark contrast to some other aspect of her character. She plays with dolls and is a sociopath. She dresses like a little girl and talks like she’s trying out for an MTV reality show. She throws tea parties and blows stuff (including – spoiler! – the guest of honor) up. These are the things that make her amusing.
OK, so what aspect of her character stands in stark contrast with her use of ebonics? Be specific about how that contrast is so amusing. If you need help, my posts in this thread contain the answer!
To call it racist… Well, like I said earlier, if you want to find something to be offended by in any Gearbox property, you don’t have to look too hard, but this is just a silly case.
OK, no. There’s this tendency among some groups to kneejerk against the claim that something is “racist” as if it’s accusing someone of being individually awful and hateful towards non-white people, rather than a symptom of a national inequity based on hundreds of years of oppression. Like unless you’re burning crosses you’re not really racist? This discussion is about awful it is to say someone is racist or has done or said something racist, rather than around actual racism(!!!). There’s this bizarre and unfounded belief that a claim of racism must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt as if in a court of law, and considering all interpretations, and avoiding deeming something racist as much as possible.
I think, honestly, this is because “racist” is just about the only thing you can call a white male that actually has a chance of being hurtful. And that feeling of words hurting is something that white males are not inured to by a lifetime of experience, thus we get bullshit like this group therapy/pity party of a bunch of white dudes congratulating each other for not finding Tina racist. Like that shit is something to be proud of?
The use of stereotypical black slang and the “urban” accent that Tiny Tina adopts is only “funny” because she’s white. If the character was black there is no fucking chance they’d have her talk like that, because that would be a minstrel act.
I’m at a loss as well. What ebonics are you referring to? Can you quote a few examples from Tina? Badonkadonk, maybe?
I live in a predominantly black and hispanic neighborhood. I grew up in San Diego and LA in the poorer parts of town. I was in the US Army in the infantry. I’m not some sheltered hipster that grew up in the The Hills with minimal exposure to “urban” culture. I’ve never heard anyone, ever, in my life talk the way Tina Tina does. She mixes all sorts of slang together into a mishmash of language.
I’d love to see any of the supposedly aggrieved parties weigh in on this. Right now, it’s just a bunch of PC white knights coming to the rescue on Twitter.
Editer
1855
There are plenty of white kids, unfortunately, who try to talk “street” in real life.
However, neither of the two Caucasian Twitter users who are protesting have apparently encountered these kids.
“Hey I told ya’z to get outta heeya, get out or do I gotta shank a bitch?” (when you dawdle in her garage when she’s preparing the rockets)
I live in a predominantly black and hispanic neighborhood.[edit out the rest of your life story]
Is this like some sort of mealy-mouthed “Some of my best neighbors are black!!”??? Again, it seems like you’re now personally trying to provide character witnesses to prove that you aren’t racist(in fact, prove that you CAN’T be racist) because you’ve lived near minorities. What does that have to do with Tiny Tina?
I’d love to see any of the supposedly aggrieved parties weigh in on this. Right now, it’s just a bunch of PC white knights coming to the rescue on Twitter.
Two things:
-
Second time in as many posts where it seems like the part of my quoted post already responded to your comment. “Would it matter? Why do people always imply that there’s something improper or suspicious if non-blacks claim to be offended by anti-black racism?” <- you quoted those two questions but did not answer either of them.
-
Why don’t the people on Twitter count as aggrieved parties? What do you mean “supposedly”?
Isn’t this race war crap better located in politics and religion instead of derailing this thread?
Nope, but nice try at implying I’m a kneejerking with white guilt. I’m saying throughout my life experience I’ve never heard a real person speak the way Tina does, despite your assertion that it’s black or urban speak.
Here is a list of some her quotes: http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Tiny_Tina
That’s not slang exclusive to one color or race.
Murbella is right, though. This topic is better in P&R, so I’ll leave you to it.
Nesrie
1859
Maybe you haven’t encountered racism as frequently as some of us have. They are saying the character is racist, not the writer. You keep quoting the same thing over and over again and not once are they saying the creator is racist. You can say something racist, write something racist but not actually be racist. You must realize this happens all the time. People who say they were “gypped”, are an “Indian Giver,” are not necessarily racist even if the statement they are using is racist. When you encounter an actual racist… there is a world of difference. That silly idea that someone who is not racist could not possibly say or write something racist… nonsense.
What? No, you’re accusing people of kneejerking with “white guilt”(the PC white knights of Twitter who for some unexplained reason don’t count as aggrieved parties). Do you not know what that idiom means?
You’re kneejerking with white privilege.
That’s not slang exclusive to one color or race.
Murbella is right, though. This topic is better in P&R, so I’ll leave you to it.
This is not a political or a religious issue, it’s very specifically about a handful of lines by a minor character in one game.
Also, whatever bizarre “slang exclusive to one race” argument you’re trying to make…
“You find it inherently racist that she uses black lingo? Why?” was the author’s first Tweet defending himself. You aren’t exactly gungho about reading things all the way through, are ya?
