3164

That has now happened.

3165

Centrism is the new conservatism, dedicated to preserving the status quo.

3166

Netherlands, Germany, Estonia, (I think), Switzerland, Canada (to some extent) and Finland. AFAIK, all have far better labor laws, social policies and educational outcomes. Pretty sure none have collectives and gulags ;).

3167

Or at least, not taking the status quo out into the streets and burning it on the altar of William, Of The People.

3168

If there’s another couple of pro-Remain defectors from the Tories, I wonder will there be renewed pressure on SF to take up their seats for Brexit votes.

3169

SF will never take their seats. I can’t stress how much of a misunderstanding of NI politics it is to even float the idea.

3170

I’m well aware of NI politics. There has already been pressure in RoI on SF to take up their seats and no shortage of soundbites in the UK about similar.

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&ei=JVptXJqdF7ik1fAP49KK2A8&q=sinn+fein+westminster+site%3Airishtimes.com

That’s just one Irish newspaper.

Perhaps you should have been stressing about misunderstanding my post, and less about what I may or may not understand? :)

3171

You dont think I would have written this if it wasn’t evidenced?

Press TV was invited in via hardline Islamist group 5Pillars.

And yes, the state owned propaganda channel for Iranian regime is controlled and directed by the Iranian regime including intelligence services.

Next you will be insisting RT and Sputnik are I independent. Come on. How do you think media in authoritarian, totalitarian regimes work?

As for the second, here’s one story, I’ll try and find the one about them boosting pro-Corbyn stuff.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/reddit-accounts-iranian-influence-operations/

Do you want videos of Corbyns tv shows on Press TV? I can’t see why you think the Iranians boosting a former employee and valuable ally against Israel a conspiracy. His links with Iran and Hezbollah are verified and real.

Edit:

3172

It’s almost as if the republican bit in the initials IRA was their prime, core value.

Kedaha, Can you really see Sinn Fein swearing loyalty to good Queen Bessie?

3173

For a single brexit vote over the hard border? Yeah.

Sinn Fein has gone from a predominantly NI party to a predominantly RoI party in the last 15 years, both in terms of membership, leadership and internal party power. RoI Sinn Fein had up until the last few months, a realistic chance at being in the next governing coalition in Ireland. Brexit (among other things including the impasse in Stormont) has been significantly hurting their credibility and very much making them look like they aren’t fit for government whether it be down South or up North.

Abstention isn’t an issue that resonates in the South, and even up North, the last poll carried out on SF voters found that 50% would accept the party making the strategic decision to end abstention. 50%. In 2017, before the prospect of a hard border. Even staunch DUP supporters are terrified of a hard border, never mind SF voters.



Not going to bother replying in depth to your conspiracy theory stuff as you clearly didn’t even read my post - I stated that PressTV wasn’t independent, that doesn’t mean they are “the arm of Iranian Intelligence Services”. The article from 7 months ago doesn’t even mention “Iranian agents brigading for corbyn on socmedia”. It only mentions that it found a grand total of 143 accounts over a period of 7 years linked to an Iranian influence operation. A whole 20 accounts per year on average, with no mention of Corbyn in the article, and this is your evidence for Iranian intelligence agents brigading for Corbyn on socmedia?

You’re completely changing the goalposts, because that’s what conspiracy theorists do. Just like you’ve always done when waffling on about Corbyn being an arch anti-semite.

There are enough negative things about Corbyn to criticise him over without inventing conspiracy theories out of thin air.

edit just out of curiousity, here’s the reddit post about Iranian influence. Of the example accounts they provided, there are a grand total of two comments/submissions about Corbyn. Both to /r/UnitedKingdom, both June 2017, both are simply links to articles (one The Guardian, the other Liberty Fighters). One had 42 karma and zero comments, the other 57 karma and seventeen comments. Yes, clearly this is incontrovertible evidence that Iranian intelligence agents are brigading for Corbyn on socmedia…

3174

Ive personally run into foreign run socmedia accounts, be it pro-Brexit or pro-Corbyn. The Russians boost him because he brings chaos, uncertainty, infighting and strife. Iran is a no brainer. He’s Hezbollah’s man in London. If he was to gain power we would see anti-Israeli and possibly anti-Jewish legislation within days. Of course Iran want this.

The Sinn Fein thing is interesting, a counter to the DUP would be welcome.

3175

Oh, I’m sorry. You’re right, I misread it.

3176

Oh, an update to the Derek Hatton story.

bemusedface.png

3177

I think this is great. Both the Labour ones and the Tory ones. Nice to see MP’s putting the country first for change.

also re: Sinn Fein I also dont think them coming in at the last hour and changing the Brexit issue, even if its in my favour, is a good idea. I certainly wouldnt like it if it was the other way around.

3178

Well, do you feel all the new TIG MPs should step down and trigger a by-election? After all, if you don’t like SF MPs taking their seats because they were voted in while on an abstaining policy, isn’t MPs who leave their party and continue to serve as Independents the same moral issue?

3179

Hmm good question. I think two reasons.

a.) The people who voted for Sinn Fein voted for them understanding they would not attend Westminster. I am sure they would be ok with Sinn Fein voting just once to help scrap Brexit but also ok with them contnuing to not attend. So my objection is not to do with their voters, more to do with I dont want to win that way. I felt the same when May came to power with the DUP. Thats NOT what many Conservative voters voted for. They didnt vote for the DUP. I think its, icky(?) to achieve your goals that way, feels a bit smokey backroom.

b.) the TIG MP’s are actually representing there constituents wishes as far as I can tell, unlike the current May/Corbyn Brexit alliance. So I guess my answer is sure, after another referendum on the EU or a general election? So the electorate get a say on Brexit?

A muddled answer I know, but these are muddled times. Your thoughts?

3180

SF constituents wish for remain or at least no hard border. Labour constituents (presumably) wish for remain.

Labour constituents voted for labour candidates, SF constituents voted for SF candidates.

I’d suggest not triggering a by-election is the bigger sin than ending abstention, the tiggies could vote against the whip and were free to say whatever they liked. Would you argue that a single tiggie would have been elected if they hadn’t run under a party ticket? If not…

We’ve had a good few party defections over here recently (and particularly going genuinely independent). I do honestly think that a by-election is the ethical decision to take if you were elected primarily as a representative of a party that you later quit.

3181

I think under normal circumstances that’s right. In this case though when May/Corbyn are going against many of their own voters on the key issue of the day or constitutional crisis well, if the TIG folks need to go back to the voters because they have changed what they stand for, then I suggest Corbyn & May need to do as well.

3182

I disagree provided you continue to vote with the party on everything important bar the reason you quit. It’s not as if they’ve taken up an opposing whip. In this particular case, a by-election would be absurd as it wouldn’t produce a new MP in time for the Brexit votes, so would effectively end up supporting leave.

But this gives them headlines and so a much larger platform for their views. It also makes it clear it’s not just talk, that they sincerely believe in the viewpoints they’re promoting. After all, it looks very much as if they’re throwing away their political careers for this.

3183

If I was Sinn Fein I’d be working out what was the best outcome to promote a united Ireland.

I don’t think that would be to swoop in, be forced to swear allegiance to a queen you don’t like (at the mildest) and push to keep the status quo (which I also dislike).