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It’s confusing, because their legal representative mostly talks about it being stopping libel/lies and also argues that
Mark Lewis, who made his name representing phone-hacking victims, said he is contacting people who have either posted allegedly libellous claims about his clients or repeatedly sent them large numbers of messages, which he says is tantamount to harassment.
And that’s coming from The Guardian, which isn’t exactly friendly toward anti-Semitism or Corbyn.
(The libel is a faked islamophobic tweet)
You wouldn’t be cherry picking the most negative articles now pwk would you? :p
Also, you’re still somehow trying to make this about Corbyn when it isn’t. I can’t find a single article (and I’ve read 8 on Riley so far) that has either Riley, her representative or the journalist mentioning Corbyn or Corbynites.
Could you not just post without needing to editorialise stuff to being about Corbyn when it isn’t? It’d be nice to discuss anti-Semitism in labour (and Britain in general) without everything somehow having to revolve around Corbyn.
I’m sad to say that European politics seem like a giant clusterfuck to me, there being so many different parties. In the US you don’t usually have to count much higher than 2. Is the Three Body Problem in physics applicable to here as well?
It depends. Smaller parties general ally with larger parties and share similar goals. If you have a labor party and a green party, they’ll usually form a coalition government. If during an election, the Green Party is getting a lot more traction and members, they’ll start demanding more emphasis on environment.
Likewise, a Christian party and a Conservative party might do the same, but the conservative party might emphasize deregulation, while the Christian party might emphasize the welfare state.
General, what you have coalitions of parties, and as the individual parties get larger or smaller, you have an idea of what the populace as a whole wants done.
In the US, we have progressives and moderates in the democratic party, and you see which side has which strengths by who is winning primaries.
Yeah there is no anti-Semitism or culture of anti-Semitism in Labour, that’s why the party isnt splitting and MP’s arent resigning.
Im not linking anything, if you dont believe there is any anti-Semitism in Labour then you carry on waving that flag if it makes you feel good about it.
After literally years of being called a house nigger and uncle tom by Corbynistas due being a British Asian of Muslim origin due to calling out racists, Ive fought a million battles on other forums which I dont need to replicate here. I came to the conclusion that Corbyn is a racist piece of shit years ago and if some random guy on a forum insists he isnt then he’s welcome to it, its not about what you think, my vote is dependent on me, a minority who grew up in the 70s and have personally experienced institutional racism making the decision that the Labour party is a racist group because what i see matches my experience of decades.
Im the angry brown guy calling out racism in my own party, your the white guy from another country who swears blind it doesnt exist. Im not going to start voting for Labour or go back to campaigning in the high street or delivering leaflets because you turn a wilfully blind eye and tell me what ive seen and experienced on a daily basis for 3 years never happened. I believe my fellow minorities when they claim persecution and oppression, its as easy as that. That’s how anti-racism works, that’s how allyship works. If there’s one thing ive learnt in my 40+ years as a minority is that those that hate me go for the Jews first. Always. You cannot go wrong by throwing yourself between an anti-Semite and a Jew. It is merely pre-emptive self defence.
Anyway, enough of Labour’s anti-Semitism problem, im sure that will pop up again later when even more MPs quit due to Corbyn’s online hate mob.
What’s actually headlining now and turning off Labour voters in even greater numbers is the hard left have decided to come out in support of ISIS bride Shamima Begum, and now socmedia is full of Corbynistas wanking themselves into a frenzy over the thought of rescuing their ISIS sweeteheart from those evil Yazidi, Iraqi, Syrian and Kurdish victims of ISIS terror. There’s never been a terrorist who the hard left don’t have sympathy for.
The case is an interesting one and yes, some genuine issues over how it being handled. Begum left UK as a minor and joined ISIS. Married a genocidal, mass-rapist and slaver. ISIS lost. Now aged 19 wants to come back. No regrets in joining ISIS, remains a supporter. Her call to be allowed back was also accompanied by comments about the children who were murdered in the Manchester Ariana Grande bombing deserved it. Unrepentant, unapologetic.
The Home Secretary revoked her citizenship due to Bangaldeshi heritage kids being granted citizenship automatically if under 21 (its so they can be snatched during divorces and brought to Bangladesh and not repatriated). However, Bangladesh also have claimed a small print in their laws that allow them to reject enemies and refuse to accept her.
There is some issues around laws that need to be dealt with correctly, but what no one has mentioned, nor seem to care about is her being dealt with in the lands of her victims, by the laws of her victims, and to the satisfaction of her victims. British media is full of the hard left anti-West, anti-Imperialists, pro-Islamist e-celebs and commentators trying to claim shes a victim, its all actually the fault of the British government for letting her “get brainwashed” and she should be safely returned for therapy and rehabilitation and since these people are all hardcore Corbynistas and all over Labour communities yet another issue is forcing members and supporters away from the party. It turns out that whilst calling out failure of the Home Office to follow correct procedure is one thing, the hard left simply cant resist framing it so it looks like they are sympathetic with ISIS members and guess what, ut isn’t really a mainstream thing with public support after all. It loses votes.
Thanks for that summary, pwk. I just can’t see how a country can accept her back if she doesn’t renounce ISIS. Seems like a vote losing ticket to support her cause as you’ve mentioned.
There are some genuine issues how it is being handled, but since the meme is “Jeremy Corbyn supports terrorists” then they had to handle it alot better than they did to overcome this existing meme. They didnt.
This is what Labour’s grassroots support think
"Nor are they the views of the majority of the real Labour Party or the views of the majority of the ordinary citizens of Derby and especially the Mackworth ward Labour party.
"I have supported our troops throughout the conflicts in the Middle East. How could I look the parents in the eye, who lost their innocent children at the Ariarna Grande concert in Manchester or the children and families of troops killed in action, or the families of the volunteers who went out to the Middle East to help with the humanitarian aid and were beheaded, if I supported such a statement.
"Yes I could walk away from the Labour Party and I have over the past few weeks thought long and hard about just that.
"I fully understand why MPs have left the Labour Party. It could not have been easy for them.
"I grew up with the Labour Party. My parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, great-aunts and great-uncles supported the Labour Party.
"It was my great-uncles who carried Derby MP Philip Noel-Baker shoulder high through the streets of Derby and stood him on a bus shelter on the Market Place.
“I’m going to stay and fight for the Labour Party I believe in, I’m not going to be pushed out by Corbyn, or his cronies in Derby, no matter what committee they take over.”
And since Corbyn has more baggage than JFK Airport, here’s what is being dug out of the archives today
I’m sure there is someone who sees the nuance in that video, but do you think the voters in the Derby article see it?
Also from the archives (and yes, order-order is a horrible site, but they are the ones who found the letter)
Labour: Stripping citizenship from ISIS members is terrible and breaks rule of law
Also Labour: Strip citizenship from IDF members
The infuriating thing is of course, the Home Office fucked up. When the revocation was announced it was accompanied with news she was a dual citizen of Bangladesh. In that case its a race between the states to see who can revoke it first. Now its more likely “deemed citizenship” due to Bangladeshi constitution and well, now its more of an argument and less of a fact.
My solution is a local solution. If she’s not a slaver and guard (many ISIS brides were) then they won’t execute her.
I know Yazidi, Kurds, Iraqis, Syrians and even an Assyrian or two via Yazidi activism or apostate communities so im biased, very much so. Once you know people who lost family to ISIS and post about them on a daily basis your tolerance for ISIS members is reduced to zero. I see Begum as a cross between Irma Grese (joined Nazi Party at 15, camp guard, executed in 1945 aged 22) and Ilse Koch (wife of Buchenwald commander, the one choosing tattooed skin for lampshades, imprisoned but sentence was reduced)
but nope, the ISIS member is the victim, we’re the bad guys.
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I never said that, I never even hinted at that. Again, you’re changing goalposts when you’re actually pinned down to provide evidentiary support for your conspiracy theories.
You linked Corbyn’s supporters to the harassment of Rachel Riley. I pointed out that no article I can find links Corbynites with the harassment. Your reply is to claim that I’m saying there are no issues with anti-Semitism in Labour.
This is what you always do around Corbyn, link vague shadowy accusations with Corbyn and when challenged on it change the argument or create a straw man.
And as I said, itd be nice to have a discussion on the rise of anti-Semitism in labour (and in general) - or at least the rise in it becoming somewhat acceptable - without you turning it into a Corbyn conspiracy theory.
That twitter video from Bellingcat dude is a case in point. Anyone who actually watches it sees that he doesn’t express sympathy, he doesn’t even express empathy. He recounts how the people he spoke with expressed understanding of the factors that caused people to become suicide bombers despite not agreeing with suicide bombing.
Yet people are claiming that’s he’s sympathising with suicide bombers?
That kind of dishonest characterisation is what has meant Corbyn, who shouldnt have won the leadership election and certainly shouldn’t have lasted this long, still retains such strong support. People react to dishonesty and condescending character assassinations and that reaction is by and large increased support for a fairly lacklustre leader.
Just read her Twitter timeline. Its quite easy. Dont expect to be handed detailed archives of hundreds of people sending thousands of messages every day for a year at her, Tracy Ann Oberman, comedian David Baddiel, food critic Jay Rayner, actress Maureen Lipman and other UK celebrities who have one thing in common.
If you dont believe there’s a culture of anti-Semitism in Labour why are MPs leaving? Why is there hundreds of articles detailing hundreds of incidents available at the click of a mouse? I havent put much in this thread, but the Tanya Gold link upthread is a good summary of the culture of tolerance for racism that exists in what is now an institutionally racist party.
If you believe that these 8 MPs are destroying their own careers for no reason whatsoever, please explain why you think these MPs are lying and what are their motives for doing so?
There seem to be even more with how it is being reported, and how you are summarizing it.
For example, Corbyn seems to have said that it is extreme for a government to revoke the citizenship of a natural born citizen, and that this person should come home and face questions for what they’ve done; which a reasonable person would take to mean possible prosecution.
As another example, the letter from McDonnell doesn’t argue that people who serve in the IDF should be stripped of citizenship; it argues that if you’re going to strip citizenship from one group of people for fighting in foreign wars, why wouldn’t you strip citizenship from another group of people fighting in foreign wars? That’s an argument against stripping citizenship.
I mean, these aren’t extreme positions.
Is this your actual position? Paraphrasing: These aren’t really bad Corbyn things, but voters will see them that way, so he’s bad.
False dichotomy. Leaves out lots of other alternatives.
Read Mike Gapes twitter timeline for the last 3 years if you want to see what its like on the front line. It’s why he openly declares Labour to be a racist hate group.
Or, maybe, don’t read Mike Gapes twitter timeline.
This is surely the solution to addressing institutional racism.
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Again, for like the fifth time in this thread, I do believe there’s a culture of not tackling anti-Semitism in Labour. What does that have to do with you linking Corbyn and Corbynites to seemingly every incident of anti-Semitism in Britain? Why, when your links are clicked, do they rarely if ever mention Corbyn when you post them as proof of Corbyn being the arch anti-Semite?
And why can’t we have a rational discussion on why anti-Semitism is becoming tolerable without you turning it into “ITS CORBYN ITS ALL CORBYN”?
Well, it might be better than reading a social media chain of rants which don’t actually demonstrate the claimed institutional racism. Maybe take a deep breath here?
I’m summarising it from the perspective of a Muslim apostate. ISIS news letters are quite clear why I stand in this argument. I am to be killed before Jews, before Americans, before Shia, before LGBTs, before everyone.
Im quite clear that the Home Office screwed up on matters of procedure and process here, but what im not doing is joining the crowd who are defending her by portraying her and others in ISIS as victims, brainwashed, without agency, without free will, without personal responsibility, and that she should be rescued from the lands of her victims and rehabilitated, and that it is the fault of the British government.
Good for you. The problem is that you are imputing to people the above position who do not seem to hold that position. This does not seem to be Corbyn’s position. Can we agree on that?
Because his timeline is a demonstration of a culture of tolerance within Labour for racism.
If your Labour CLP level socmedia network is filled with people who post dozens of messages a day about Jews every day, 7 days a week for 365 days a year, for years, and then no one calls out them out for accusations of collective blame and responsibility, use of tropes, use of slurs, things like defending Holocaust Deniers, defending those using open racism like posting cartoons of hook nosed Jews without censure then you exist within an organisation that is not anti-racist.
All i have to try and counter what I believe are his PR lies is the evidence of his 35 years of solidarity with Islamism and Islamist terrorism. Milnes not going to send him out to say anything blatantly stupid is he? The problem with the hard left position on this is they start on a back foot. They have decades of baggage behind them so they need to be far more careful than what they are. Those savvy enough are focusing entirely on Milnes media proxies and e-celebs to see what Leaders Office really think, and its not looking good.
