And my reply was an honest attempt to think about what Churchill would do.
It’s also worth considering that at several times in the past there have been pushes towards more European integration and sometimes pushes against.
Edit: food for thought.
Anyway I’m all for remain and the biggest tragedy IMHO is that this has polarised the country and exposed how little people know and how little they want to think for themselves and, sadly, how easy it is to blame “the other.”
Frankly, certain politicians ought to be shot IMHO.
The leavers posted about taking back control, when it seems to me the best case scenario at the moment involves ceding a lot of control (seat at the decision table gone.)
Plus they lied about the NHS money and they lied about Turkey imminently joining the EU (so be scared because 80 million darkies are coming…!) and it’s been a constant catalogue of lies and bullshit and exaggerations and half truths - sadly on BOTH sides.
Project Fear has predicted the end of the world, and as much as I would like to sock it to certain politicians and people, most of project fear probably won’t happen, and if it does happen it’ll be blamed on a bunch of other stuff.
To quote Wes Streeting “The fish rots from the head down”
As ive been pointing and shouting very loudly for a few years, the cases being blocked and dismissed, the racists being exonerated and protected are entirely due to the actions of the NEC governing board and compliance, and Leaders office and personal staff, and yes, guess what, this couldnt be a more perfect definition of institutional and systematic racism if they tried.
This leak is probably Tom Watsons “reply” to Chair of Labour Jennie Formbys letter slapping him down for trying to oversee cases and ensure they went through the system and werent waylaid, dismissed or binned. She, without asking him, claimed Lord Falconer was overseeing cases and he was trying to breach GDPR and data protection laws. Falconer has sinced weighed in with his support of Watson. Falconer was Labours Lord Chancellor/Minister for Justice/Solicitor General for years and the senior legal person in the UK government. It was a busy week that saw arch-Corbynista and MP Chris Williamson being suspended for Labour for his comments and his arranging of Jackie Walkers (yeah the one being defended upthread) film to be screened in Westminster.
Watson is also meeting some of the donors/organisers of TIG. If Watson goes half the party will follow him, even if they have to put up with things like this.
An MP who led the revolt against anti-Semitism in Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party has been branded a ‘Jew whore’ who should burn ‘in the ovens’.
Joan Ryan, who quit Labour last month in protest at the party’s ‘culture of anti-Semitism’, called in police after receiving two separate death threats in the wake of her defection.
One was an unstamped handwritten note delivered to Ms Ryan’s Commons office on a week ago on Friday which branded her a cck-sucking, Jewish cnt who defected to Israel’ who should be raped and ‘set on fire’…
I think the earlier poster was right, the Brexit thread isnt the best place to discuss Labour, I should take this to the Neonazi thread.
And it’s risky. There’ll be several people. Who will vote leave purely as a giant fuck you to May etc.
And even if remainders take it, I doubt it’d be a landslide and even if it was, what then, 2 out of 3?
Thats why I say postpone in order to sort our shit out without an external clock ticking and forcing our hand.
And then use that time to adjust the procedures and fix as much as we can of the things people are objecting to (I don’t think many eastern Europeans are benefits scroungers but take some decisive, visible action against any, and remove that argument from the leave arsenal.)
The problem is that 1) there’s no way to sort out the shit and fix the problems people are objecting to, and 2) the EU won’t stop the clock indefinitely. Best case it seems they might stop it for a few months, but the EU elections coming up make any more deeply problematic. And it has been two years since the Article 50 declaration and there has been basically no movement at all on resolving the thorniest problems, and no one can offer anything like a workable solution for them even in the abstract.
It doesn’t seem like there would be any incentive at all for the EU to extend timing. Not being from the EU or the UK, it would seem to me that the EU’s incentive would be to make it as painful as possible for the UK to send a message to any other countries contemplating an exit.
There is a more practical consideration: EU elections in late May. If they leave the EU this month it’s not an issue, but if they delay for even 90 days it’s a problem. The UK will have to hold elections to the EU parliament.
That’s always been my view as well. The last thing the EU wants is countries doing this shit constantly.
Then again I’ve always viewed the EU as a rehashing of the Articles of Confederation. Sounds great until you actually start doing shit and then you realize it’s a clusterfuck and mostly pointless because every nation is going to do it’s own thing and the bigger ones will leverage the system to their own benefit until everyone gets fed up and leaves or stops playing ball.
The UK was already getting special treatment, so that they’re the first to leave is kind of amazing in the dumbest way. I always expected it was going to be Greece, Spain or maybe Italy, but the UK managed to stupid their way to the front of the list by being gullible and holding no one accountable for any of their bullshit.
Going by the results of the first referendum is crazy, since it was mostly based on sentiment. Now we have more concrete ideas of what the deal will look like. It’s not a do-over, it’s a refinement, hopefully based on more tangible facts, and a course of action.
I love how Leavers are so petrified we have another vote: why? Why should you worry about a second result, if your side holds water? or maybe it’s because you know the result was so influenced by lies, BS, deceit, foreign powers, that it can’t be risked.
If I were you, I’d be saying, let’s do it! Because a second win for you will get you the hardest of all brexits, and congrats to you if you do, rather than E.May’s limp middle ground you’ll get otherwise.
Oh, I agree that the small players get pushed around, but you only have to see the monetary and political volatility of Italy before the EU and the Euro to understand why they wanted to form them in the first place. I once read a comment to the effect that the EU / Euro was a plot by Italy to acquire German central bankers.
Why? Spain and Greece have been net receivers of EU funding for decades now. They aren’t going to leave and neither is Italy despite it being a net contributor. Their massive national debt combined with shaky banks is an economic bomb that will go off the moment they leave.
