draxen
3604
We can only hope for a veto on any extension. Come on EU members, you’re our only hope! :P
The irony is not lost.
Well this was on my list of low probability events not worth hoping for. Now what?
More 14 words bullshit from a third of British people. I can’t imagine many/any are remainers though.
The next time a Brexiter mentions blue passports or sovereignty this is what they really meant.
My simplistic understanding is that there are many Muslims in Britain and many of them are British.
Therefore what on earth does a Brexiteers gain, in this regard, from leaving the EU?
I’m not seeing any benefit here for a Brexiteers who also has reservations about Islam.
British Muslims would also get blue passports…
I’m not disagreeing with you as such, just expressing bafflement at this as a Brexiteers motive, although if bundles up in general anti foreigner sentiment it makes a bit. More sense.
spiffy
3608
Because in their mind, a Muslim Brit is not a real Brit, therefore gets lumped in their brain as an immigrant. Or that they think the Muslim Brit will keep bringing in family and relatives or whatever via immigration. Never mind that they wouldn’t necessarily be coming via EU, it’s all just gets lumped in with controlling immigration.
Yup, it’s not about anything other than xenophobia and racism.
Tim_N
3610
Because you’re only considering step 1 of their plan…
draxen
3611
Ah jeez, we’re going around this circle again are we?
Saying that all Brexit supporters are racists is as equally ridiculous as saying that all Muslims are terrorists.
No it’s the same as saying all Trump supporters are racists, which at this stage of his presidency, they are.
This isn’t 2016 anymore. Proclamations of innocence and denialism aren’t going to work. No one wants to wilfully inflict pain, misery and suffering on others for blue passports or sovereignty or what ever crypto-racist bullshit you want to lie about. If you weren’t in the Gillette and #metoo threads waving the flag for your alt right beliefs I might have a bit of sympathy but you are, and I don’t.
Aceris
3615
Soverignity is not crypto-racist bullshit.
I like free movement.
I think blue passports are stupid.
I think the sovereignty issue alone is crucial. The EU wants to go somewhere the British people don’t want to go, and although the EU structure makes its process to that destination achingly slow, it also makes it irreversible.
I wasn’t in favour of leave, but you can’t make the sovereignty issue go away just by smearing people who talk about it.
Most don’t care about it. Most couldnt even define sovereignty. It’s about as important to Brexit as North Korean nukes are to Trump’s wall.
“Actually, it’s about sovreignty.”
“Actually, it’s about ethics in gaming journalism.”
CraigM
3618
Yup. Especially since the only concrete part of sovereignty they can all agree on is stopping immigrants.
Thing is, even if somehow the decision is made to stop immigrants, a lot of British Muslims were born here.
Ergo British as anyone else on. This island.
Ergo immigration = non sequitur.
So confused.
Anyway, I’m not sure if this is wholly accurate or fair, but I enjoyed it anyway.
Miramon
3620
Of course, stopping immigrants is the first step on a path that leads eventually to death camps.
Noone said it was logical
Aceris
3622
I think there was sense of profound disquiet about it, especially after what happened with Lisbon. Less in terms of specifics and more in terms of “how much power does the UK government have, and how much do unelected bureaucrats in Brussels have”. Now, while the “unelected bureaucrats” line is an unfair caricature of EU processes, it represents the truth that accountability and democratic control of EU structures is somewhat tenuous. At the same time whatever the democratic legitimacy of the EU structures, there was certainly a belief that power had been transferred to the EU by stealth. Clearly the official leave campaign felt this was the case, as they played on it a lot with their campaigning.
Ultimately the idea that sovereignty was irrelevant to the leave vote is just as ridiculous as the idea that racism was irrelevant to the leave vote.
Aceris
3623
Ultimately since I believe that the way the UK signed the Lisbon treaty was fundamentally undemocratic then being told that I can’t talk about that because I might help racists makes me see the person saying that as a totalitarian, rather than their opponents as racists - and this is true even if I already think their most vocal opponents are racists.
