On another (Dutch) forum I frequent, the general consensus is that the various HoC factions are all well aware that the outcome of Brexit—no matter what it is—is going to be bad. So their priority isn’t to steer the UK through the crisis, but to shape the outcome in a way that allows them to look good in the eyes of their constituents. With bonus points if the ‘other side’ can be blamed for the bad outcome.
It’s the pinnacle of dysfunctional partisan politics.
Aceris
4029
You’re absolutely right. I was saying noone in the HoC know how to win, but it might also be said they don’t even want to win.
They no longer can win. Anything that could be construed as a decisive victory isn’t ever going to happen, so now they’re stuck with avoiding a loss instead.
This is what you get when your representatives aren’t competent leaders, but salespeople who can brand themselves well enough to get elected. And how do salespeople deal with a defective product (Brexit)? They talk around the problems because they sure as hell aren’t capable of fixing it.
Classical Mozart and Beethoven etc with a modern, rough and gritty metallic edge.
draxen
4032
Now reports are coming in that in order to meet the EUs deadline and get that already agreed longer extension the government are trying to split the WA and PD into two. Put the WA up for a vote tomorrow and bypass Bercow by saying “It’s NOT the MV3, it’s an entirely new thing”.
If this is true then they’ve lost the plot entirely. (facepalm).
Some more reporting from Marketplace:
A few things stood out to me in this and the other stories they’ve been posting from their recent trip to the UK. First, a whole lot of people just wouldn’t talk to them at all about Brexit, and who can blame them? We hear enough about it here in the US, so I can only imagine how insane the coverage must be for y’all actually at the epicenter.
Second, the interviews with Leave voters had a common refrain of wanting things to go back to how they used to be. Largely this took the form of “too many immigrants, things were better when everyone here was like me” but it also showed up in “too many big stores, local shops are suffering” and “good jobs are impossible to find without going to uni and then moving to the big city, and sometimes not even then”. Boy, does that ever sound familiar to those of us across the pond!
Third, no one seemed to know how leaving the EU would actually help. They just wanted a change, and everyone telling them “it’s a terrible idea” were the same politicians who keep promising improvements that never arrive. So they went with the change, not because they expected something good, but because they felt something different was necessary.
Bottom line, there wasn’t a lot of logic involved. I think those of us on this forum tend to be logical thinkers and assume others are as well. We assume when someone votes, they must understand what they’re voting for and the likely repercussions, especially in a case like Brexit when people were all over the media shouting to the rooftops about it. It’s pretty clear, though, that’s simply not the case for a lot of folks. They vote with feelings, following the elephant to use the Haidt analogy. Good lesson for future similar situations.
No no no!
Haven’t you learned anything.
Everyone knows only hard core racists voted brexit.
🙄
I mean, if Bercow gets to make bullshit arguments about whether meaningful votes have changed, the government can too.
So much economic anxiety.
“Yeah, well I’m infinity strong!”
“I’m infinity strong times two!”
Wow this government is so bad. Now they are splitting up the agreement to… (you guessed it) vote for May’s deal yet again. Because you know, fuck half of Parliament and half the country.
She has become Trump like, she simply hates the majority of her own country.
draxen
4039
I would disagree with this. I don’t think there is any hate or love involved. They are simply trying to get the WA bill passed to get the A50 extension…
… in a really deeply shady and possibly legally murky fashion :)
I mean, they’re trying to get the WA passed to get the WA passed.
Well with each defeat they dig in even deeper and try and find new clever ways to get around parliament and avoid consulting the people.
If they spent a fraction of that effort trying to work with the people who disagree then we would be in far better shape. Their scorched earth politics is the worst in a generation. Even Thatcher was a better Parliamentarian. May apparently thinks the majority of the country is going to shut up and go away if only she can ram through her deal.
Not sure why I am ranting to you :0 But yeah you are right :)
Aceris
4042
Most of parliament have voted for something that requires the thing on Friday to pass.
You can argue that she’s going about it in the wrong way to try as part of some underhanded attempt to force through her version of the political declaration, but she’s not like Trump.
draxen
4043
Apparently this is fine with the EU.
Strange feeling, I’ve just watched a TV report how the English community has increased to become the biggest foreign community in a village not very far from where my parents are from, in the interior of Portugal, a region who lost most of it’s younger people in the 60’s and 70’s. It’s like 170 people out of 500 foreigners. Not so much, but the region only has 5000 people, so… Weird seeing the places I grew up, poor places, where nobody truly could earn a living being filled by people from the outside, working for the entire world through the Internet.
Many of these people, they moved out here after the referendum, probably had plans of doing it eventually, but Brexit sharpened the need.
Also fine with Bercow.
Ignore the clickbait thumbnail on the video. Its all rather pleasant.
So…
1 We have this working agreement…
2 That won’t work, look at that backstop. We need some kind of reassurance.
3 Ok so what about this political declaration.
4 That won’t work.
5 GOTO 1?
