Considering any culture better/worse than any other culture is subjective in any context and therefore always racist. Your statement is completely meaningless.

And so what if it is? Trumpism has a specific culture of people supporting it, and I certainly feel my values/culture are better than theirs.

People are going to die. There are a wave of warnings from the health industry in the last few days about a failure in preparations, and the layer of injunctions and orders banning organisations from publicising it.

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-considers-no-deal-brexit-supply-trains-for-medicines/

People.

Are.

Going.

To.

Die.

I keep saying this, because for me, not killing people ranks above keeping out immigrants, or blue passports or “sovereignty”

Can our pro Brexiters at least put their hands up and say “I want people to die in order to achieve my goal” and show the first bit of honesty they’ve uttered on the entire subject?

The first no deal preparations will all have been safety critical. It’s extremely negligent that preparations weren’t started sooner - preferably upon invoking A50.

Preparations? By who? The most incompetent govt in British history? You think they have failsafe plans? And you say that at the bottom of this thread?

I’m hoping the preparations will have been managed by experienced civil servant staff and merely rubber stamped by the inept government ;)

The civil sevants undergoing therapy due to Brexit stress? The ones whose departments are stripped to the bone and berefit of funding?

I dont rely on “hope” I listen to those on the front line and ignoring gag orders.

Interesting article from Sky News claims May soured on no deal Brexit because of worries that it could lead to the breakup of the UK. The hard NI border required by a no deal Brexit would itself require ‘unpalatable’ actions taken by the UK government to institute and manage, which could in turn trigger an NI referendum which, if successful, could trigger another Scotland referendum.

There’s still a reluctance to admit that they’ve been lying for the past 3 years and do in fact want to reverse the outcome of the referendum.

Not-coincidentally I have a lot more respect for the LibDems, who have consistently said they want to reverse the outcome and campaigned on that.

Newsnight report last night

The health service has been unable to stockpile certain drugs in case of a no-deal Brexit, potentially putting patients at risk, documents show.
Confidential NHS England files - seen by BBC Newsnight - suggest supply chain issues mean some drugs used to treat conditions like epilepsy and bipolar disorder “cannot be stockpiled”.
Potential shortages would have “a significant impact”, documents say.
The Department of Health said supplies “should be uninterrupted”.

One of the problems mentioned in the report were the gagging orders imposed by the government stopped the flow of information that could have solved a lot of these problems earlier. (You may wish to speculate why the gagging orders were put in place, to the detriment of the no-deal planning activity, if everything is going as smoothly as you make out.)

tl;dr: people will die.

If there is a problem, it is down to the sudden influx of said population. They pretty much all came over in one year.

I suspect the Chicago group are multi generational?

I shall…one day…maybe when I am back in England :D.

And this is a surprise?

Revoke Article 50 then?

In the books Homo Deus and Sapiens, alot of time is given over to epxloring the concepts of liberal humanism, which says that your feelings are the root and core of your world experience and give it meaning.

I’ve said the same before. Start preparing for the worst case before starting the clock ticking. And now that we are in this mess, stop the goddamed clock.

To be fair, the US attitude towards assimilation and general “melting pot” philosophy does tend to help immigrants feel welcome and encourage them to take part in the overall culture. Relatively free transfer of land, the ability to expand, and the (perhaps mostly imagined) potential for upward mobility int he US culture helps a LOT.

In an Old-World town where the natives have lived for many hundreds if not thousands of years, where the local corner shop has stayed under the control of the same family for multiple generations, and where the expectation that a son will absolutely follow in his father’s footsteps and take over the family business… then the presence of a new “other” will not be anywhere near as welcome as in the US. An immigrant in that environment will have a far, far harder time trying to find a niche in the prevailing culture… and thus may be left with little choice but to retain their own culture or start a - necessarily insular - enclave.

Cities are probably a little different. I imagine that a new immigrant landing in London as opposed to a village in the Midlands would have an easier time.

And although I am an advocate for immigration, I will play Devil’s Advocate for some of @draxen 's points.

First, a large influx of people from a different culture WILL erode the overall influence of the existing culture. That’s just a a thing that happens. In the US we tend to be alarmed (gentrification!) by this or shrug at it depending on whether the existing culture is a minority one overall or not.

Take a fairly neutral case from US history - the city of St. Louis.

First off, the initial displacement of the Ottowa culture is bad, because it was pretty much done illegally through theft of the land and over the objections of the rightful regime. So let’s not talk about that part.

For the first hundred years or so of the city’s existence, it was French (even though for much of that time it was technically in Spanish territory). If you drive through St. Louis, many of the place-names (as opposed to the streets) are French: LaSalle, Gravois, DeBaliviere, etc. Many of the surrounding townships like Florissant have French names. French was the primary spoken language.

In the 1840s, German immigrants began to arrive in the area in large numbers. The city population ballooned from 20K to 80K in just a decade.

And the existing, French-English culture was pretty much washed away. It didn’t disappear, but it was watered down massively. German became dominant tongue (and would remain so until the US entered WWI), and Germanic attitudes towards work and slavery prevailed against the previous pro-slavery stance.

Many of the French-English residents of the city in the 1840s warned that the influx of “Hunnish” immigrants would supplant their culture and way of life. And what they predicted came to pass.

Was anything precious lost with that culture? Tough to say. The Germanic character of the city is now held up as a point of pride… as is the previous French “golden age”… and as is the current majority African-American culture that has pushed the previous culture out into the suburbs.

This got kind of long I guess. The point is that immigrants’ cultures can and do water down or completely replace existing cultures if the newcomers arrive in very significant numbers. In the US we don’t tend to care too much, because cultural change has been expected and often welcomed throughout our history and for the most part we don’t consider our culture as anything precious (as opposed to our philosophy, which we cherish). But things are different in places where the culture has deeper roots.

That’s just stupid. It’s ignoring all of European history. If Britain was so “not part of Europe” then I guess they would not have been involved with every single major European event of the the past 1500 years right? LOL. NO, they were practically the epicenter of every single European event of the last 1500 years. Brits are Europeans through and through and to suddenly think they aren’t is to willfully take on Alzheimer disease. Lets not forget where Brits came from. Europe - more specifically the French, German, Spanish, and Benelux regions of Europe. There is no Britain without Europe.

There are bridges longer than the Channel is wide. Any notions of physical separation were solved by technology long ago.

The “them and us” attitude is inherent in the Brexiters. I just can’t consider my EU friends and colleagues over the years as any different to anyone else.

It’s a fundamental frame of mind Brexiters have, its utterly regressive. No wonder Imperialism and Colonialism is on the rise. This thinking should be a bygone relic of a lost age. It really needs to be stamped out. With imperialism and colonialism come oppression, violence, conflict, war and genocide.

My post was about identity not geographic location.
From the link in the original post:

"One of the most interesting questions in the report focused on how European citizens viewed their relationships to their home nations and to Europe as a whole, asking whether they identified themselves only by their nationality, by nationality and then as European, as European and then by their nationality, or just as European.

Overall, British respondents were the most likely to identify themselves only by nationality, at 64%."

You understand that it is that sense of identity which is at the core of racism, right?

The context of that is just silly though. It’s like asking an American if they feel more “American” or “North American” to fit a prejudice. Of course most will identify “American” because they don’t usually think about the whole continent as it’s not part of the normal geographic morphology. So the study is rather meaningless in the grand scheme of things but Brexiters will trot it out and say “See this fits!”

Ask the same thing of the Finnish and give them two options: European or Scandinavian. Of course they will most likely identify as Scandinavian as that is their literal heritage. But it doesn’t mean they’re anti-Euro or don’t identify themselves as being part of the Euro.

Though I guess in a way it does prove something. That British tend to think along old Colonial lines instead of looking at the whole (me vs. us) - which isn’t smart in a global economy where Britain is already losing ground.

If the effort is meant to combat the idea that the Brexit vote was motivated by fear and loathing of the other, pointing out how the British have a greater sense of their own unique identity and of the otherism of other people doesn’t really fit the bill.

Nostalgia for Empire is certainly prevalent. I may have linked this before.

http://criticallegalthinking.com/2016/06/19/brexit-nostalgia-empire/

and I know Ive posted this.

I think that sums up certain Brexiters best, (the Tory Boomers rather than Gen X/Millennial far right)

21st century gunboat diplomacy by sending a war machine to the old Empire combined with an amazing lack of understanding of the globalised age we live in, and where power now lies.