4809

And as far as both the fomer and the latter go, how’s this ‘brexit’ thing working out for them?

4810

The argument that brexiters aren’t racists and xenophobes sure sounds a lot like the argument that Trump supporters aren’t those things.

But Trump supporters are in fact those things. Because at the very least, they excuse such behavior and don’t mind associating with people who embrace it openly.

If you’re willing to walk down the street with those kind of people, then you ARE that type of person.

4811

So far the Brexiters masterplan is to transfer sovereignty to Trump, and transfer NHS to US medical firms in return for allowing US food producers to flood our market with all the unsafe, dangerous crap they eat.

4812

Ok, that’s what they thought they would get with Brexit in 2016. Now we know that Brexit sovereignty means hugely reduced influence and bargaining power, hence less agency not more; reduced immigration from EU means more from third world countries/China etc; and trade freedom, once everything existing has imploded, and years from now (presumably) renegociated, means worse deals than now from lack of leverage.

So, no, the terms are not the same and understandings have changed, unless for the last three years you’ve jammed your fingers into your ears. But I fully expect you to throw the blanket ‘project fear’ platitude out based on the lies of corrupt politicians, rather than the statements of every industry policy expert and business leader in the country.

4813

You say that like its a bad thing…

4814

I mean at this point we probably need to let some of those states collapse so that the people there realize how dependent on the federal government are, and how much their politicians lied.

4815

It’s possible this is true, though in practice the Danish Kroner is tied firmly to the Euro, so there is really not much practical difference from an economic perspective. The only benefit is that if DK wanted to go independent at some point, it is possible to do so at least in theory (in practice, such an attempt would probably result in massive speculation against the DKK as to make such a move highly fraught with risk).

As I recall the election when this was going down, a lot of the reason for turning down the Euro was just basic EU-skepticism combined with the disastrous drop in the value of the Euro during that period (the Euro deprecated by about 25% vs the dollar in the period before the election, and there was a real worry whether it was going to be a viable currency).

After the No, governments have generally avoided elections about EU, as they are generally a losing matter.

4816
4817

And that’s where Brexit has lead us. Openly racist politicians are applauded and adored for being racist.

4818

You may have cause and effect reversed there.

4819

Perhaps, but I think pre-referendum the taboos around racism would have tempered the crowds reaction. Now those taboos have been swept away and bigotry is seen as a positive attribute by millions of Brits.

4820

It’s all self-reinforcing. It’s how fascism happens.

4821

OK, against my better judgement - I’ll bite…

I think this is an incredibly simplistic view on what is just a tiny part of an immensely complex topic.
First, you have taken this soundbite out of context. If you read the full paragraph in Boris’s article he states:

“If you tell me that the burka is oppressive, then I am with you. If you say that it is weird and bullying to expect women to cover their faces, then I totally agree – and I would add that I can find no scriptural authority for the practice in the Koran. I would go further and say that it is absolutely ridiculous that people should choose to go around looking like letter boxes; and I thoroughly dislike any attempt by any – invariably male – government to encourage such demonstrations of “modesty”, notably the extraordinary exhortations of President Ramzan Kadyrov of Chechnya, who has told the men of his country to splat their women with paintballs if they fail to cover their heads.”

I don’t think Boris is racist - actually I think he’s a liberal. The reason he is using “inflammatory” language is that it appeals to his base. I imagine the article is quite calculated. It triggers some controversy with the liberal left in order to garner support from the conservative right.

Here is the full article:

4822

This leads me to…

Luckily, I can sit here in relative anonymity and happily discuss my views with you. However, if I were a public figure I’d be frightened to do so. To comment on any controversial subject such as race, culture or immigration could invite the “you are a racist” crowd that could have serious negative effects on my career (getting fired from my job) or having my reputation irreparably damaged. If I were a public figure then I’d keep my mouth shut.

I’m with you. We should have zero tolerance for fascists or racist crazies but it’s been taken too far. We seem to be losing all nuance or balance. By immediately labeling anyone you disagree with as racist you are not “serving the greater good” instead you are creating an authoritarian environment of self-censorship.

EDIT:
It’s also interesting to note that the non-PC language used by Boris/Trump could be part of the re-alignment of politics that is occurring, it’s feeding into a backlash against political correctness gone mad.

4823

I have no idea what Boris truly thinks, but it doesn’t matter. This type of language from leaders normalizes racism. It encourages it. It escalates the problem. If he doesn’t believe it himself and only uses it to advance his career, how is that better?

4824

“He’s not racist, he just panders to them.”

Yeah, that’s way better.

4825

Only one kind of person intentionally appeals to racists, and that is a racist.

4826

I’m not convinced Boris is pandering to racists.

As far as I can tell, the far right only exist in small numbers. I think this is evidenced by the amount of votes Tommy Robinson received in the European elections. The question then becomes who is he pandering to and why. My shower thought is that it’s targeted more towards those who are unhappy with the rise of the social progressives (I’m uncertain of my terminology here. I’ve been calling this group the progressive left but I think that’s incorrect and social progressives is probably more accurate).

That’s my supposition. The domination of the mainstream media by The rise of social progressives has in turn created a backlash against them. This is who Boris is trying to tap into with this article (who also form part of his voting base).

4827

Bullshit. Mainstream media is dominated by crap like Fox News who is far-right and owned by the Murdoch empire. IN Britain it is even worse because you have Daily Fail, all the Star tabloids, The Times, Australian Sky News, Wall Street Journal, Harper Collins and a ton of other book publishers, I could list another 40+ items that are under Murdoch’s thumb.

So no, mainstream media is not dominated by social progressives. Social progressiveness in media is actually a push-back against the insanity and hate leveled from the right-wing mainstream media field.

Don’t go putting the cart before the horse. Fox News and their psychotic bent has been around much longer than political correctness in “other” mainstream media vehicles.

4828

You’re right of course, I concede the point.

Let me rephrase my statement:
The rise of social progressives has in turn created a backlash against them. This is who Boris is trying to tap into with this article (who also form part of his voting base).