4991

I had the same question. Those polling questions are…weird.

4992

This is illustrative of the collective madness and shift to the far right that’s happened in the Tories.

I guess they are wanking over the thought of being handed some mates rates contracts by the Home Office for Child Concentration Camps.

4993

You guys are fucked

4994

The misinformation and propaganda campaign has been going strong for quite sometime:

I’m going to say this for the billionth time. When the entire Brexit campaign has been predicated on outright deceipt and lies… it should have been disqualified and abandoned.

4995

98 articles over 20 years, some of which really stretch the definition of fake news. The UK is more pro-EU than I realised. :)

4996

That’s just a few. You also know it’s just the tip of the iceberg.

4997

and the perils of even working with Johnson are glaringly obvious to anyone in Westminster or near it.

“Regain our sovereignty” = hand over decisions on who should represent us to a foreign leader. Even at a most basic level the Brexiters can’t get a single thing right.

If you follow the story via the Guardian its a senior Tory or Russian leak to embarrass May and the UK govt and put us even more within the influence of Trump and his Nazi scum.

Oh and I wonder if a Johnson leadership would split the Conservatives. Im sure it will be a few more than Soubry and Allen who refuse to sit in the same room as that fucking clown.

4998

More polling :)

4999

This hell will never end. British politics will involve nothing other than Brexit for the rest of our lives.

5000

How long will it take a majority of the racist fucks driving it to die off? Maybe it will end before too long, if by some magic there aren’t new ones being made at a good enough replacement rate to make it a perpetual thing.

5001

Not that long, but if you lose Scotland that sets you back a bit again :)

5002

The worst thing about Scotland is all the Scots!

5003

It’s the Irish you have to watch out for :)

5004

It’s interesting that independence is bobbing about on the Scottish radar again. For the last while an independent Scotland would have tried to be part of an EU that also contained the rest of the UK. So they would control various things, but still have freedom of movement and goods across the border with England. If England is no longer in the EU, then an EU border across the middle of Britain beckons, which would be pretty painful.

5005

They could call it Cameron’s Wall, and deter any border crossing by flinging pigs down upon any interlopers.

5006

We will just insist on a soft border. Apparently that kind of thing is just legitimate defence of our own interests, after all it would be them who want to leave.

5007

I reckon eventually the whole Brexit gets thrown out of the window.

Or maybe I just naively hope. :D

But seriously, how can anyone who voted Brexit for legitimate reasons (based on conceptions as discussed earlier) still want to support it, now that we have seen more of Bojo and Farage etc?

5008

raises hand
That would be me :)
(possibly the only Leave supporter in this thread?)

I’m not a fan of Farage or Johnson (at best I view them with a distrustful ambivalence) but policy is more important to me than individual politicians. We had a national referendum and Leave won. We must implement the result or we risk flirting with authoritarianism. Farage may well be a crook but The Brexit Party is valuable in that it’s applying pressure to the Tories to deliver Brexit - as a protest vote they serve their purpose.

5009

BUt policy was based on deliberate lies, and the situation has changed.

It is imho madness to pursue old policy blindly in light of new information.

People voted brexit for x, y and z, all of which are no longer relevant/have been disproved/were never true in the first place.

And no we don’t have to implement the result, especially when we see that to do so is not in the least bit easy, and comes with huge potential costs, like losing Northern Ireland and/or Scotland, or even Wales now.

Going back to the people to present the new situation and ask for a new vote, that seems to me the exact opposite of authoritarianism, and blindly pushing on, and threatening to prorogue parliament to get it through, now THAT to me seems to be more than flirting with authoritarianism.

I don’t mean to attack you personally, and god knows others in this thread have made me raise my eyebrows more than you have, but given what we know now, that arguably we (speaking as a country) didn’t know before, namely

  • just how painful extricating ourselves is,
  • and just how much power we actually have to change things within the EU,
  • and just how prolonged and extensive the anti EU campaigns have been going on,
  • and given how we already have tools to mitigate, if we choose, the numbers of immigrants ( from the top of my head requiring national insurance registration in order to work, and then charging for it, that’s easy to do. Requiring medical insurance before you can get your NI number or register yourself as living somewhere, which is what the Spanish did to me, also easy to do, and would actually make immigrants a net financial boost from the get go)

then I have to ask how on earth Brexit can be considered the best move here.

I think all the underlying issues causing Brexit are self inflicted and the solutions lies with us.

I mean, leaving the EU isn’t suddenly going to reduce immigrant numbers. Many have already come and are more or less guaranteed to be allowed to stay (which is reciprocal, and good for me because I spent about half my time in Spain!)

5010

If you handed Draxen a pill and told him it would make him stronger, and he decided to take it; and then you told him that it actually would give him cancer and his skin would flake off and his face melt, he’d still take it, because not doing so would make his past self disrespected and foolish and undermine his very foundation of self. Or something! I have to admire the stoicism on display in his posts, as long as it’s not made up rubbish to hide a more idiologically revolting position he’d rather have us not know… which seems a lot more likely, given his ridiculous reasoning.

If Draxen argued he just would prefer an isolationist stance, or had economic theories (however bonkers) that he thought were better, I’d believe him more.