There’s a pretty big grey area where the decision isn’t obviously bad, though. And I suspect Draxen is arguing from such a position (though you and I obviously disagree with it!).
And of course, I remain firmly in agreement with Burke: “Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.” Ironically, the Conservative party is very much at odds with one of the founders of Conservative politics.
A big part of why I don’t buy Draxen’s argument in the here-and-now is that Parliament had a jolly good go at enacting Brexit, and clearly found it was impossible to implement in a coherent and non self destructive manner. I can have some sympathy for the argument representatives should listen to a popular vote; I have none for the idea they should repeatedly attempt the impossible or the foolhardy on the back of one.
And especially not from one, as grows ever more likely, that was several Parliaments ago. How long is such a mandate supposed to last? Eternally?
Gosh, living here in Trump’s America, that sounds super familiar.
draxen
5034
Spiffy is 100% right. It is a false equivalence.
I was trying to be succinct in order to convey a… feeling/perception/mood rather than argue a specific detail.
commiseration brunch, BYOB
I don’t think parliament can deliver Brexit and I would get off my bum and vote in a GE for sure.
Don’t worry, I did read the rest of your post.
I’m not sure what we have apparently lost.
Or how we would “get it back.”
And one that baffles me.
Agreed. You phrased it better than me.
I’ve heard this concept before, the idea of beneficial dictatorship.
If a competent US government took the global lead would we not in effect have such a thing?
We need more tea, clearly.
ShivaX
5037
TIL that the will of the people is authoritarianism or something.
Even if you lied to them about what they were voting for. Because reasons.
Aceris
5038
Everyone tends to forget that Burke lost his seat at the next election, but was able to remain in parliament thanks to a rotten borough. It’s always worth remembering that those words were spoken by a man for whom a democratic mandate was a matter of prestige, not of power.
He was also very explicit about this doctrine before his election, rather than promising one thing and doing another.
If this is a reference to Brexit, I’m not sure makes sense to hold today’s MPs of all parties to a promise made by a previous government of a particular one.
And I didn’t forget! I’m not recommending Burke as a life role model or anything…
Aceris
5040
It was more a reference to pretty much everyone in this sad sorry process.
On an unrealted note, this is a decent article laying out the traditional sceptic view on the EU and how it applies to the current situation:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-07-11/mervyn-king-on-europe-s-part-in-greece-s-downfall
Fair enough! I think we’re all regretting voting for any of the fools that brought us to this place. The Parliament of 2015 was not a wise one.
There’s not a chance there is a single politician that is intelligent or capable of delivering Brexit.
So Brexiter policy is to murder hundreds of foreign fishermen, and place an exclusion zone around the UK that ends somewhere deep inland in Germany.
What utter jingositic dogshit. This type of shit makes me want to burn the flag.
Yeah, this is totally going to work:
Fucking morons.
I think I would prefer it in the form of a Mad Lib
The wonderful thing about Brexit to me is this:
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Leavers spend tens of millions to lie to the public about Brexit benefits.
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Leavers collude with hostile foreign power to deploy Brexit lies as propaganda
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Leavers collude with corrupt mind-control corporations to deploy Brexit propaganda.
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Even the leading Leavers are sure Remain will win on the night of the first vote because they never seriously expected anything else.
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Mild opposition: Can’t we have a proper referendum on the various choices we have now that they are clearly known?
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Leavers: NO THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN WE CANNOT BETRAY THEIR TRUST
Rumour has the leak at senior Tory level. Leadership candidate or cabinet.
Hopefully Johnson.
Of course it was a high level leak. The civil service wouldn’t do it.
It was either:
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Twisted attempt to damage US-UK relations in order to strengthen Hunt after the inevitable infantile reaction by Trump.
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Perverse attempt to strengthen Johnson by showing how anything less than Johnson’s total sycophantism will hurt the UK.
The thing is that even though both possibilities seem equally likely, both are equally idiotic and thus are both equally plausible for the imbeciles near the top of the party.
If it was about leaving the EU then your list doesnt seem to make any sense.
If it was the far/hard right obtaining power then it fits far better. The US and UK factions behind both Trump and Brexit are the same. They can ignore facts/commons sense/logic because all they need is propaganda, not a genuine argument.
