5292

Yeah even if he was just saying whatever to avoid upsetting a friend it still reflects awfully on him (although it was a very long time ago).

I’m pretty convinced that Boris will say whatever he thinks will endear him to his chosen audience - that’s the character flaw in that phone call, that’s the character flaw in his support for Brexit, and that’s his greatest flaw as PM - he’ll always have a political strategy, he’ll never have a governing strategy, and his word will only be kept as long as it benefits him.

5293

The amount of Russian influence could probably be just as accurately measured by the amount of time and effort spent cozying up to Russians versus just the number of operatives logged into Facebook buying ads or whatever.

5294

This is…not true. You have seen evidence of his racism, you just don’t think it is compelling or strong enough evidence. That’s not the same thing as not having seen any evidence. Can we at least agree on that?

5295

Whether or not our resident racist thinks something is racist is irrelevant. He just a coward and trolling the thread.

We all full well know he wouldn’t walk up to a black person and call them a “picaninie with a watermelon smile” because he’s only brave enough to peddle his racist dogshit as an anonymous poster.

And its not “agree to disagree” I don’t fucking agree with these far right ultranationalist scum in any form whatsoever. It’s “there a good people on both side” Trumpian bullshit of the highest order. Fight them or fuck them there’s nothing in between.

5296

It is quite hard to believe that this argument is offered in good faith.

Everyone knows that what the EU’s red lines are, and everyone knows why they are red lines, and everyone knows that the EU will not abandon them, and arguing that if we just ignore them now and crash out, the EU will give them up later is something only a fool or a liar could say.

Assuming Raab isn’t stupid, then what is the purpose of the lie? I get that it is a lie you can profitably tell if the actual outcome is years away — you can gain a lot in years, and maybe the horse will sing after all! — but when the outcome is months away, what do you stand to gain?

5297

Well ofcourse he would say that.

No surprise there.

Blame the EU for everything.

Then bitch when leaving them causes pain.

Then blame them for causing us pain, even though we are the ones who chose to leave with no plan and no clue and full of lies.

5298

That’s not the lie I’m talking about. I’m talking about this lie:

The foreign secretary believes a no-deal scenario could provide more leverage in the context of a free trade agreement and resolve long-standing issues such as the Irish backstop.

5299

I think it’s absolutely fantastic that we now have a hard Leave government. It should have happened 3 years ago. Every policy that takes us toward upholding the referendum result is a positive step forward.

I think the recent criticism of Boris can be best described as hysterical (as in hysteria, not as in funny).

Roll on 31st Oct. With luck we’ll be out.

5300

i think the recent criticism of Boris can be best described as hysterical

When BAME’s complain Johnson is racist, including when head of the Conservative Party Muslim board resigns citing Johnsons issues, this white man insists they are just beng “hysterical”, because of course, he knows better than non-whites. No doubt due to his feelings of superiority over them.

Oh lawdee massuh! Thank the lord we have someone to teach us right. Us dumb brown people can’t think for ourselves.

Erasure like this is a absolutely racism too. Of the worst sort.

5301

A non binding advisory referendum that was (intentionally) poorly defined and vague about what it meant, and won with a narrow margin, the consequences of implementing are massive realignments of the economy and country.

Pardon me for thinking that your notion of ‘should have had a hard Brexit PM three years ago’ as bug fuck nuts.

It would be one thing if the terms and nature were clearly defined and actionable goals laid out for the referendum, but it had all the rigor and specificity of a Jr High girl passing a note with ‘do you like me [ ]Y [ ]N’ then demanding that they get married if he checks yes.

5302

Wait, that’s not how marriage works outside of Utah?

5303

Another hysterical black for our great white saviours to put right.

5304

With more luck, you’ll answer this question.

5305

I guess strangling women protestors only warrants an investigation and suspension under a woman leader. Of course Johnsons long history of misogyny and spousal/partner abuse means his tacit acceptance of Fields actions shouldn’t be a surprise.

5306

“strangling”? Really? I see you’ve embraced Boris’ attitude to the truth.

It’s hard to see what the point of the investigation would be, given the maximum sanction would be to be sacked as a minister.

Now by all means you can argue there should have been a party investigation resulting in withdrawal of the whip (and I’m not sure how I feel about that - it’s persuasive but I’m very wary of Tory MPs being held to a different standard from Labour MPs by people on the left), but:

  1. The decision not to have such an investigation would have been taken under May.
  2. Given your position on Labour is that party investigations should be free from interference from the leader’s office, you can’t blame Boris unless he blocked an investigation.
5307

And on that point I’m leaving the thread. I’ve realised that I consider @draxen the second most intellectually honest regular poster I respond to here (and I think he is largely utterly wrong on the substantive issues). The signal to hypocritical partisan bullshit ratio is just too low.

5308

Thanks @Aceris. I have very much enjoyed debating Brexit with you. I have found all of your posts informative and well considered. The thread will be poorer as a result of you leaving.

5309

That’s generally what you call grabbing someone strongly by the throat, yes.

And on that point I’m leaving the thread. I’ve realised that I consider @draxen the second most intellectually honest regular poster

and intellectually honest is his post history in this thread, and his insistence he’s actually left wing? That’s about as honest and truthful as

Gman, Malathor and Draxen choose what side to stand with, they can deal with the consequences. I’m sure The_Donald, the Daily Mail and Breitbart comments sections will treat them better.

5310

John Oliver is not a fan (surprise!)
5311

So you have money and will still be relatively comfortable during this, while those well below you will be screwed. How nice.

The thing about Tories is in addition to a hard Brexit, Boris will also introduce austerity measures as tax revenues drop and he plans to bring in private health insurance which will cripple the NHS and those that soley depend on it. Mark my words this will be disastrous to anyone who is not middle class and above. But again, lower middle class and the poor aren’t real humans are they?

@draxen I’m truly, truly confused by you. Days or weeks ago you post all this stuff trying to prove your a socially liberal minded individual on par with many of us here - yet I’ve never seen a post where you are as adamant for the under privileged and disenfranchised as you are about Brexit, which lets be honest - is 95% about alt right Nationalism and carving up Britain to the highest private bidder.

Your posts read like you’re Emperor Palpatine pleading with the Rebel Alliance exclaiming, “I’m really the same as you except for this one thing…”

It is really perplexing how you can condemn so many to potential oblivion but think you’re the good guy in this. I just do not understand it. I think your mind is warping the realities of what is actually going to happen to fit the end result of what you want, and that’s not healthy. It’s just not healthy. Unlike playwithknives I do not think you’re racist, but your desire to leave the EU has clouded your mind.