5678

Not quite. I mean that NI would stay in the customs union/single market but the UK (minus NI) would be free to diverge. Border control would occur in the UK and people/goods be subject to checks when entering the UK.

The backstop is the UK would remain the customs union/single market.

EDIT:
Backstop vs NI-only backstop

5679

Who needs those dirty oirish after all!

Make England Great Again.

5680

My opinion has nothing to do with race or culture - it’s just the most logical solution. We cannot have a hard border but we already have existing sea border controls. Still, this is just one mans opinion (mine). Who knows what the eventual solution might be.

5681

Just buy Greenland, and move the Irish there. Then you have a water border!

5682

Isn’t that the solution already rejected by the Tories and the DUP? I mean, the backstop exists because the government wouldn’t accept the idea of Northern Ireland alone remaining in the single market and imposing border controls between NI and the rest of the UK.

Edit: That’s also where the bullshit alternative arrangements nonsense comes from.

5683

Yes, but it’s likely it was only rejected because the DUP were propping up May’s government and they are opposed to the idea. If Boris can gain a majority without the DUP the NI-only backstop might be floated again.

EDIT:
Here’s the Irish Prime Minister floating it in July.

5684

It has a good acronym, I’ll give it that.

5685

I realize this is a ridiculous question this late in the game but have any of the Brexiters articulated what they hope to gain at such a high cost? The only attempt I’ve seen was from that guy who got banned and it was basically a racist screed again dirty immigrants and crime.

Note that this is a genuine question on my part. I legitimately don’t understand the motivation for Brexit. It seems like it will be massively disruptive to the UK, it’s people and its economy for a long time and I’m unclear why some people find that preferable to remaining in the EU.

5686

Yeah… perhaps someone should put the slogan on some sort of wearable garment? Ideally something in a bright prime colour that would draw attention to it?

I bet that would sell pretty well.

5687

The very abridged version:
Dislike of the direction of the EU project (ever increasing integration leading to eventual federalization)
The desire for more control over our own laws
Concern about the ability to hold elected officials accountable
The desire to make our own trade deals
Concern about mass immigration and the desire for greater immigration control
We held a referendum and the majority voted to leave

5688

I thought the HBO movie did a fairly decent job of explaining the motivations for the Brexit vote and how it was sold to the public. The parallels to Trump’s electoral victory are amazing.

5689

They have a bunch of feels, hurts and greviences revolving around isolationism and jingoism but mainly its xenophobia and racism.

When you ask them to articulate the EU policies and laws that have personally effected them, and ask them how EU regulations and structures affected their lives, and what and how the alternative mechanisms should look like.

Nothing. They dont know how the EU works, they dont know how trade works, they dont know how the economy works, they dont know how regulation works, they dont know a damn thing. Collectively their grasp of the EU and the economy is as tenuous as Trumps pronouncements on the same. James O’Brien has a number of call ins and guests where he asks Brexiters to explain what their issues were, how it effected them and what they will do going forward and the sheer volume of ignorance and stupidity is breathtaking.

All they really want to do is shout “go home” at non-whites born in the UK.

5690

There is no “temporary arrangement” because there is no arrangement at all. Trying to claim that this is an alternative to the backstop is disingenuous.

So please cut the BS. The UK end-game here is pretty obvious: to ignore international treaties long enough that the other part is forced to uphold it. After which Team Johnson will go around playing their usual game “see, we were happy to uphold the GFA - it’s the bad Irish/EU who closed the border” which will no doubt play well to ignorant internal consumption, but won’t prevent the inevitable bloodshed.

5691

Yes, OK - it’s an absence of an arrangement. I’ve claimed nothing. It’s the governments stated plan in the event of no deal.
EDIT: I will claim though that I think it’s better than the backstop because it doesn’t tie our hands legally.

You don’t know this as fact. It is just a possible scenario. We don’t know what will happen - the situation is fluid.

5692

Draxen is right about one thing. Short of canceling Brexit, the best option is a border in the Irish Sea. This can’t happen until the DUP loses power, which means it probably won’t happen until after an election. Or two.

5693

and of course, reneging international agreements is a good way to set the stage in regards to negotiating new contracts. Another one of those “easy” agreements the Brexiters were promising to deliver in a few months time. They best start soon eh.

Another element of Trumpism borrowed by the ultranationalist scum in No.10.

5694

Yes, I think this is right. Better to blame the EU for breaking the GFA than to take the blame yourself. Never mind that it is the inevitable, predictable result of your own actions and decisions.

5695

What a load of bullshit. You don’t even hold your own politicians accountable. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a more pathetic “list”. Also noted you made sure to put immigration last so as to not tip off the “I might be a bit xenophobic and racist” bit.

5696

Frankly I don’t think the EU cares who the UK blames. Do you really care whether Maduro takes personal responsibility or blames the US for Venezuela’s problems?

5697

The list was in no particular order. The question was asked and I answered as best I could.

You seem to be struggling to grasp a very simple concept. I’ll try and help you:
Euroscepticism is criticism of the EU project. Euroscepticism is not racism. You can be Eurosceptic without being racist.