but you don’t give a shit about seeing James Crowley on the “other side :)”, do you.
Again, you seem to think being on the “kill little children” side is just a “differing view”
that’s a shame (serious comment).
strategy
6063
Dropping out of social media discussions is never a bad idea - it can be exhausting (especially when Google/Facebooks’s algorithms decide that “hey, you’ve read some of this stuff, here’s 2000 pages of similar nonsense that you’re surely interested in”). I’m tired out it, and I’m not even British.
I think you should expect to be disappointed, though, if you really hope/think the above will happen.
If the UK leaves, it won’t be as a country with a plan (the UK government has had years to come up with a plan already) and it won’t be as a country united. In fact, any Leave scenario is likely going to result in a more divided UK than ever before. And that is going to be true whatever happens - Leave = Independence movements exploit feelings of disenfranchisement to split up the UK; Remain = Right wing exploits feeling of disenfranchisement to whip up even more anti-immigrant sentiments.
Yes. Whatever happens, the damage is done. The arguments will continue for a decade or more. The future is going to be dominated by Brexit discussions and constant negotiations.
While true, and something I’ve lamented as well, this misses I think one of the major points of these sorts of problems. This position assumes that reason and evidence and knowledge have power of their own, that when people are exposed to them and decide to (or are made to) seriously engage with these tools, they will come around to the right position. But we’re dealing here with people–across issues, and places, not just Brexit or the US or whatever–who fundamentally reject the basic epistemology and theoretical underpinnings upon which this viewpoint rests. Literally, there is no amount of evidence, reasoned argument, or education that can change the mind of someone who has already rejected those things as irrelevant or, worse, pernicious.
Yeah, BBBs friend who thought Yellowhammer was written by Remainers is literally Qanon levels of batshit insane conspiracy lunacy. You can’t show these people facts, data or use reason. Let’s hope they are all persuaded that the solution to Brexit is drinking turpentine.
Edit: Government No Deal advice is now appearing with more detail
Oghier
6067
It’s really difficult to defeat the combined forces of willful ignorance and racism when rallied by demagogues, profiteers and con-men. I’d like to see the US and the UK both succeed in doing so, but I think we’ll be lucky to go one-for-two.
The Revolutionary Communist Party aka Spiked Online aka the Furedi Cult aka Who The Fuck Knows What They Are are in the news again, fielding Brexit Party candidates.
and the LibDems gain another MP
I am going to be fascinated to see if the election results are close to this projection. I will try to remember to dredge this up to compare.
Canuck
6072
If the Conservatives are such a shit party then how come they have so much of the vote? Surely the tide of public opinion should have turned against them by now?
KevinC
6073
Donald Trump is by any measure a terrible human being and an even worse executive but he still polls at ~40%. People are dumb.
I’m not sure people are dumb or vindictive (though they are those things, at times) so much as hopeless. In, literally, having no hope that things will ever get better as they measure them. The problem is that the way many people measure national or social success is rooted in inaccurate assumptions, exceptional historical aberrations, and wishful thinking.
I thought the latest Andrew Sullivan column did a pretty good job explaining why someone would support leaving for reasonable concerns of national sovereignty:
[The EU] is requiring the surrender and pooling of more and more national sovereignty from its members. And in this series of surrenders, Britain is unique in its history and identity. In the last century, every other European country has experienced the most severe loss of sovereignty a nation can experience: the occupation of a foreign army on its soil. Britain hasn’t. Its government has retained control of its own island territory now for a thousand years. More salient: this very resistance has come to define the character of the country, idealized by Churchill in the country’s darkest hour. Britain was always going to have more trouble pooling sovereignty than others.
Sullivan is nearly always wrong, and the idea that e.g. the French or the Spanish have less of a notion of their special national culture and sovereignty than do the British can only be held from the bottom of a deep well of ignorance.
The ONLY choice to the Giant Douche is this Turd Sandwich, and if you try and change the Turd Sandwich to an Inanimate Carbon Rod the Turdanistas will insist you are controlled by Jews.
Yup, nothing demonstrates our loss of sovereignty like the events of the last few years, when the UK was forced to destroy itself by the EUSSR.
Would a Labour leader other than Corbyn induce Liberal Democrat voters to vote for Labour instead? I doubt it. In which case, the Tories’ large minority is still decisive.
