wavey
6202
I’m not sure what this means in practice - when he’s not Labour leader? Or when he doesn’t have enough MPs to make a difference? There’s no majority for allowing no-deal through parliament, so I’m not sure how it could happen and him be somehow less to blame for it than now, as opposition leader, and yet still be charged with picking up the pieces.
spiffy
6203
I mean, he’s going to put up every resistance to No-Deal he can, but if it subsequently happens anyway, he’ll not be displeased, and citing his resistance to it, not be blamed, and he hopes acquire the reigns when the conservatives are demolished when NoDeal turns out to be painful.
Oh sure, Corbyn has done a lot to show he wants to avoid the no-deal version of Brexit. Can’t be associated with that if it were to happen.
Barring a revocation of article 50, no-deal Brexit remains the default outcome, and it should be obvious to anyone that the UK government is unable to come up with a Brexit plan that’s palatable enough to pass the House.
If Corbyn really wants to avoid a no-deal Brexit the only realistic route would be to support revoking article 50. And lo and behold, that’s the one thing he doesn’t do.
Although I suppose the EU could grant extensions ad infinitum and this circus never ends.
Prorogation ruled unlawful. Johnson is the first PM to lie to the sovereign. One for the history books.
Prorogation unlawful and voided. Supreme Court judgment here.
Dang, came here to post that. Y’all some hard core news junkies.
To be clear, that is not a finding of the Supreme Court:
The judges simply found there was no reason to prorogue Parliament for as long as he did.
wavey
6209
I’ll just note that this does have the ring of a conspiracy theory about it. It’s basically untestable: if Corbyn is a secret no-dealer who nevertheless wants to appear to be doing everything to stop a no-deal, how is that functionally different from someone who genuinely doesn’t want no deal? Are we just speculating about his internal emotional state…?
If the sole evidence for it is that anyone who does not support straight-up revocation secretly wants no-deal, I’m afraid that isn’t enough for me to get on board. (And btw, I do think there are potential deals that could get through parliament, without May’s red lines. Or even the deal as it is subject to a confirmatory referendum would get through with Tory support. Never mind a general election rolling the dice on what deal could get through.)
But if there’s anything stronger than suspicions to go on, I’m all ears.
strategy
6210
The facts, though, are that he has opposed No Deal all the way - and taken action that he did not have to do (and actions which certainly cost him and Labour votes) to oppose No Deal. If what you guys theorize was true, he would have refused to collaborate with the Lib Dems, and allowed Boris to go do whatever he wants.
I think he would probably be fine with leaving the EU under the Norwegian model or some form of May’s deal. Perhaps that’s even what he’s working toward. But to suggest he wants No-Deal simply because he doesn’t support a straight up revocation makes no sense.
Edit: Or basically what @wavey just said.
spiffy
6211
I’m not sure why this needs to be a conspiracy. He doesn’t favor the previous status quo as much as a smaller shake-up, because the unknown offers more possibility.
wavey
6213
The proposition that Corbyn’s in favour of some kind of disaster socialism, happy to see people die and the place burn down as long as he’s in charge of the ashes, is a rather extraordinary claim that would require some extraordinary evidence.
Boris Johnson needs to hold for 57 days to avoid having the shortest tenure ever as PM.
spiffy
6215
Quit conflating what I’m saying. I’m not suggesting he’s going to be licking the skulls, just that enacting more broad policy or ideological changes would be easier than if we went back to the more rosy pre-article 50 economic climate. He’s never liked the status quo, he’s far left of center.
wavey
6216
Apologies, it was not my intention to misrepresent you. I think no-deal will be a disaster, on both economic and human terms, especially in Northern Ireland. And to the poor, the sick, minorities, etc.
I agree that broad changes would potentially be easier to implement in a more desperate climate. What I think is extraordinary is the idea that Corbyn - or indeed anyone not currently pushing for no-deal - would be “not be displeased” if that were the cost to pay for a slightly easier time implementing his agenda.
spiffy
6217
I mean, what else do we infer from what Marinus has identified? What, is he also trying to avert a civil war inside Labour, like the Tories? To me the only thing causing the ‘Labour civil war’ is his pro-Brexit stance. Yes, there are labor strongholds for Brexit up north, but surely he is weakened, not strengthened, by appeasing them. LibDems revival is directly a result of his waffling. They were dead and buried.
wavey
6218
His plan is to get in power, negotiate a softer Brexit deal and put that to the people vs remaining. I assume the political decision is that this will have more validity amongst the populace than simply revoking, and help temper the inevitable Leaver backlash. He currently has the power to avoid no-deal, which he has used successfully multiple times.
I just don’t see how this all adds up to “secret no-dealer”.
spiffy
6219
fine, I think
a) Corbyn wants a soft deal put to the people, hoping for soft deal over No Deal & Remain; or
b) having fought NoDeal tooth and nail, he’d still rather have NoDeal than Remain because of opportunity; because
c) Remain wins, status quo, why do we need Corbyn? Life is good without nationalizing everything, ie, we’ve had 10 years of Tory austerity and people are still voting for them.
Maybe because you say he has a secret desire that isn’t manifest in his actual statements and actions?
He’s opposed to angering the majority who voted for Brexit and the majority who still favor it might mean he lacks courage, but I don’t see how you can reasonably say it means that he secretly wants something he has actually fought against.
