Thank you for the numbers. I feel like this is way more authoritative than the qualitative stuff thrown out in the thread thus far.

I like this a lot. It rolls off the tongue. “Follow me, sir. It’s time to ride the Freedom Chopper.”

I don’t think anyone made that argument did they?

I thought the whataboutery was an attempt at defending US practices.

I wasn’t defending US practices. I was pointing out that US regulations are based on subjective squeamishness.

There are plenty of scientific reasons to prefer EU regs. But criticism of the US based on squeamishness totally misses the point. It’s as if the UK criticized the US criminal justice system because US judges dress funny. Of all things, you chose that?

Yep, it’s a big issue in North Carolina (which has the most corrupt legislature in the US)

I do think we’re reaching our lowest point in regulation soon

You can take the “both sides” bullshit and shove it back up Trump’s fat arse where you found it.

Eww, that’s so far off the mark that I feel embarrassed just looking at it.

It’s all part of the fascists propaganda to shift blame onto the Irish, French and Germans. Trumpian lies basically.

We all know the routine and how it works now. Blatant lies and scapegoating with a large dose of xenophobia and hatemongering thrown in. Trump 101.

I’ve seen a few Brexiteer types saying the EU are playing the blame game.

Because apparently having clear and consistent red lines from day one due to constitutional and treaty requirements = playing the blame game when you reject the latest ‘deal’ that tries to undermine these.

Oh please, the whole negotiation has been structured to allow the EU to play the blame game. That’s diplomacy. I’m sick of the double standards. When the UKgov lies, that’s appalling, when the EU lies, that’s no big deal. When the UKgov breaches diplomatic standards or tries to bully, that’s appalling, when the EU does so, that’s no big deal. And of course the other way if you ask the brexiteers. Johnson is much worse than the other players in this drama, no doubt, but from the point the EU announced the sequencing of the negotiations this has been a hostile negotiation. May just wasn’t willing to acknowledge it because she wanted a deal more than she wanted to stand up to the EU (and I say that with no judgement).

Fuck Business™

Nissan to end night shift at Sunderland plant

From behind the paywall:
"Nissan workers at the carmaker’s Sunderland plant have been told that the factory’s night shift is to end.

In a brief statement on Wednesday night, the company confirmed that headcount at the plant, which employs around 6,500 people, will remain the same despite the change. At present, the plant, the UK’s biggest single carmaking site, operates three shifts and works around the clock. It will move to two shifts.

The Nissan statement said: “To support the production of the new Juke [small sport utility vehicle], extra manufacturing staff will be needed on the plant’s production Line Two. In a restructuring of the production schedule, these staff will transfer from production Line One, with both lines operating on a two-shift pattern.”

Nissan declined to give any further details.

The timing, coming as anxieties over the threat of a no-deal Brexit intensify, will arouse further unease among workers in the UK automotive sector. The sector faces potentially grave disruption in the event of a no-deal Brexit and is already suffering from a drop in new car sales. While the Nissan statement indicates that more staff are needed on the Juke line, the end of the night shift may imply a drop in volumes for the larger Qashqai SUV.

Last week, Nissan said that plans to build the new Qashqai in Sunderland — a model crucial to the plant and a linchpin of its output — had not changed following reports that the company could change its mind if the UK left the EU without a deal. But it urged UK and EU negotiators to “work collaboratively towards an orderly, balanced Brexit that will continue to encourage mutually beneficial trade”.

The Sunderland plant makes the Qashqai, Juke and electric Leaf models.

On Wednesday night, Steve Turner, assistant general secretary of Unite, the recognised union at the Sunderland site, said: “Unite has been aware of this announcement for some time and our officers and reps at the plant have been working hard to ensure that the full workforce is protected. As a result, no jobs will be lost with current demand being consolidated into the remaining day shifts.”

The end of the third shift, which will affect around 3,000 people, will mean a slight drop in pay because the night shift premium will not apply. Nissan is north-east England’s biggest private-sector employer and its Sunderland plant is crucial to many thousands of supply chain jobs in the area.

Night shift has been part of the production schedule for years at the Sunderland site, and has helped the plant cope with strong demand for the Qashqai.

The axing of night shift follows other reversals at the plant in the past two years — none of which have been attributed by Nissan to Brexit uncertainty.

Earlier this year, it reversed a 2016 decision to build the X-Trail vehicle there, a year after laying off hundreds of workers at the site because of a sharp decline in diesel sales across Europe. It also stopped production there this year of the Infiniti Q30, a premium model.

The Sunderland plant, in production since 1986, is one of the carmaker’s international crown jewels, ranking among its most efficient sites outside of Japan. Investment in the plant now exceeds £4bn, with a further £100m spent to prepare for the new Juke, which is about to begin production.

Around three-quarters of the site’s cars are exported, with more than half going to Europe. Its UK supply chain supports 26,000 jobs."

The difference is that what the EU is willing to negociate on has been, and ever will be, crystal clear, and that the options the UK can choose for their deal are already laid out in the Norway, Canada, etc type deals. And that everything Boris has been peddling has not solved any of its own inconsistancies or seemed to be in good faith. So, sure, the EU has been trying to be seen as bending over backwards and not causing a No-Deal, but they certainly haven’t been bullying in as much as just sticking to their guns, having all the leverage, knowing that any deviation would only threaten their members and future health of the union.

The EU has been entirely professional in its defence against the aggressors. The whole thing is like when one of those random lunatics sues a corporation in court and represents themselves and just rants and rages at the judge and the team of lawyers from the corporation who’ve arrived with a box of documents and well prepared defence.

EU facts vs Brexiter feelings. That’s why none of this is working. You would think the alt right Brexiters might recognise this somehow. There’s pages of me going on about SJW reality bubbles hitting facts, logic and reason in the identity politics thread that sums this up perfectly, but this time its the Brexiters who inhabit a world where their feelings will somehow overcome things like physical borders and international treaties.

More Labour shenanigans

Salma Yaqoob is a Respect Party entryist best summed up by this reply to the tweet

Respect are a hard left, party composed of mainly Islamists, SWP and the anti-imperialists from STWC, and more or less existed for a while on a pro-terrorist, Death to the West ticket.

and now one of their worst, one who has treated a loyal Corbyn MP to a disgusting campaign is being endorsed by Labour leadership and Momentum for a mayors position. Again, this is why Corbyn is a billion points below Johnson, these people are his people and have always been. The Islamists and anti-West crowd will scare off all the floating voters and centre. There just isnt significant support for Islamism, Assad, Putin, Iran and Hezbollah in the British public.

🤨

Yes, good impression of exactly the type of people I mean. The kinds of people who can’t be reasoned with because when it comes to Brexit, they simply don’t have the ability to reason.

E.g. Irish position since day one: A hard border is a red line we will not agree to under any circumstance

Brexiteer view: Ireland are being entirely unreasonable, lying, not engaging in negotiations in good faith and are just playing the blame game.

It’s utterly ludicrous

I voted remain so I guess remainers are unreasonable.

As documented upthread the original Irish position was very much about some kind of arrangements to ensure a nearly frictionless border. The idea of insisting on NI being part of the same customs area emerged a few months after the referendum. This wasn’t a matter of bad faith or deception but of an emerging position (and change of leader).

So yeah, Ireland may not have lied, but you just did.

  1. “Norway” or “Canada” aren’t available as they would take NI out of the CU, which the EU will not permit.

  2. If you want an example of EU bad faith, long before Boris was part of the negotiations, how about where May was accused of “begging” in the German press after a private diplomatic meeting. It was an open secret Selmayr leaked it to damage her. Or the leaked figures of ~100bn in obligations that had no basis in law.

Both sides are playing diplomatic hardball now - and Boris of course mixes that with all the things that are wrong with Boris - but a lot of the confusion of the brits early on was because the EU were playing hardball from the beginning. If the negotiation had been with Macron and Merkel, rather than the commission, I’m sure we would have a reasonable deal that protected the EU’s key interests and didn’t allow any “cakeism”.

Oh yeah, the Norwegian border is basically a moat filled with alligators, what with their… umm… membership in the Single Market.

Just what do you think that this “reasonable deal” would have looked like? For example what has EU has been demanding that Macron and Merkel would have given ground on?