Moreover, how the hell would Macron and Merkel be able to negotiate for the EU 27?
We’ve had this discussion before, so let’s put the facts on the table. Here are the directives for Brexit negotiations that the EU27 approved on May 22, 2017:
Published and public, so there is no way that the British government and media can claim they were not aware of this when the Brexit negotiations started. Here is what it specifically says about Ireland:
Can we put this claim about how the EU has changed its position on Ireland to rest now? It’s getting pretty tiresome to see it pop up every two-three months.
As for the both-siderism, I’ll just point out again that of two separate agreements that have been published between the EU and the UK on how to solve this problem and on which both sides have agreed (the December 2017 draft agreement and May’s Brexit deal) - it has been the UK government that has reneged on their prior negotiating positions in each case.
kedaha
6486
I said no hard border, not NI must remain part of the customs union. Please don’t lie about my posts because you’re a nasty brexiteer who lives in a fantasy land and the only way you can make arguments is to be dishonest about what others say and do.
Aceris had said he voted remain, and would vote remain again if there were another referendum. He’s not a ‘Brexiteer’.
Well, Brexiteers’ strategy finally makes sense:
Holographic cards do sound cool though.
wavey
6490
What are the alternatives to avoid a hard border, if not a customs union?
My understanding is that the definition of a “hard border” was agreed between EU & UK in the 2017 joint report:
- … The United Kingdom also recalls its commitment to the avoidance of a hard border, including any physical infrastructure or related checks and controls.
Wouldn’t NI being a separate customs territory necessitate new checks and controls? Looking at the Norway-Sweden border, there are customs checks there, even if they only happen sporadically in practice.
kedaha
6491
He post pro-brexit viewpoints all the time. I’m going to trust his opinions are more reflective of his actual views rather than the occasional “hey I’m a remainer so pay more attention when I post pro-brexit views”.
Regardless, I said Ireland has always had “No hard border as a red line”. He then replies and says I’m lying because I said “Ireland insists on NI remaining part of the customs union”. I never said that.
kedaha
6492
shrug
That’s still different than claiming that Ireland/EU are insisting on NI remaining in the customs union.
The red line is a hard border. If the UK can’t find a solution other than NI remaining in the customs union to satisfy that red line, how is that the EU ‘insisting on a customs union’? There’s a huge difference between the two, and it’s not just semantics.
wavey
6493
Ah, understood - I agree that the issue is that the UK is demanding two completely incompatible things; no hard border and no customs union. And now we are just waiting for the UK govt to accept reality.
kedaha
6494
Aceris’ bugbear about it being Ireland/EU’s fault comes back to this report: https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/kenny-plans-virtual-border-to-preserve-path-to-the-north-34915784.html
He’s claimed since then, that because it was once said informally by the Irish PM that it would in theory be possible to have a soft border due to ‘technology’, the only reason that isn’t possible now is because Ireland/EU have taken it off the table.
The reality is, there is no proposed technological solution. The UK hasn’t offered any, and RoI/EU haven’t turned any down. It’s simply not possible as stands.
So Johnson has blinked on the Irish border?
More importantly, so seems the DUP.
antlers
6497
Or Johnson decided he won’t need DUP after the election?
They sound on board with this.
I wonder how this will go down with the hardcore Brexiteers.
Won’t they pushing to keep NI the same as the rest?
More importantly, isn’t this a huge security etc risk for the EU, as once British regulations are, presumably, laxened, what’s to stop us undercutting the EU by pushing everything through Ireland?
draxen
6500
If the leaks are true then it’s a good solution. Why it took them 3 years to propose/agree to it is beyond me (thanks May + DUP). The numbers will be tight to get it through Parliament though.
What makes it different to May’s deal?
draxen
6502
From what I’ve read (and if the leaks are true). They’re talking about NI remaining in the EU customs union and the rest of the UK leaving (a hard Brexit and sea border). However, NI companies can claim rebates on goods if the UK tariff is lower than the EU one.
It’s a pretty poor article but they explain it in more detail here:
and the Brexiters still get to build their concentration camps I guess.
Johnsons plan is still firmly in the Fuck Business camp, a hard brexit that fucks us all.
