Brexit, aka, the UK Becomes a Clown Car of the Highest Order

Ginger_Yellow · 2019-10-18T20:19:51.718Z

Why is the House of Commons sitting on a Saturday?

The House is sitting to debate the Government’s new Brexit deal. Yesterday, the Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, agreed a deal with the European Union.

To comply with the Benn Act (officially known as the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019) the House of Commons needs to agree to this deal or vote for a no deal before Saturday 19 October 2019, or ask for an extension to Article 50.

What time will the House sit on Saturday?

The House will sit at 9.30am. It is not known at what time the debate will end as it has no time limit.

magnet · 2019-10-18T20:20:23.182Z

Juan_Raigada:

I am angry at the EU giving even more concessions

The Brussels Times – 18 Oct 19

Revised Brexit deal same one rejected 'three years ago,' EP Brexit...

The Brexit deal approved on Thursday is the same one the EU proposed to the UK "three years ago," the EU Parliament's Brexit coordinator said on Friday. "What we have now is the fi

Menzo · 2019-10-18T20:22:18.767Z

spiffy:

When it means the economy sliding into the channel, then they prefer delay, yes.

I think it’s cute that you think draxen is here to join in a discussion. All he does is a driveby cut and paste of pro-Brexit articles with a little snark on the side then he’s out.

draxen · 2019-10-18T20:42:00.665Z

Menzo:

I think it’s cute that you think draxen is here to join in a discussion. All he does is a driveby cut and paste of pro-Brexit articles with a little snark on the side then he’s out.

That is a gross mischaracterization. I’ve engaged heartily in debate on Brexit.

Timex · 2019-10-18T22:06:31.576Z

Yes, i don’t think that’s a fair characterization of what Draxxen has done.

strategy · 2019-10-19T00:38:44.031Z

As much as I think Corbyn deserves some credit for battling Johnson over the past few weeks, he deserves all the criticism directed his way if he really allows Labor MPs to break ranks to vote for the deal. Hard to see any motivation for such a move that makes any kind of rational sense - it’s not a better deal than the one’s they’ve rejected multiple times now - and it’s approval would be a terrible result from a political point of view pretty much ensuring that Labor will bleed big in any kind of election.

draxen · 2019-10-19T01:30:46.146Z

Corbyn is apparently a eurosceptic and Leave supporter. Ironically there used to be a strong current of leftwing euroscepticism.

Purely speculation…
I imagine he’s also sick to death of Brexit. I expect he’d be extremely happy if the issue faded into the background so he can campaign properly on a (more domestic) agenda he actually believes in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Jeremy_Corbyn#Support_for_Brexit

This video gives a pretty good, fast overview.

playingwithknives · 2019-10-19T13:32:36.256Z

UKIPs embracing of the alt right, “classical liberals”, far right, neonazis and assorted malcontents and undesirables was so toxic it destroyed the party, hence anyone short of someone with a swastika tattooed on their forehead joined the Tories or the BXP.

The UKIP brawl involving, well themselves and dead horse continues. The horse seems to be winning.

twitter.com

Neil Hamilton AC/AM (NeilUKIP)

Wise up Gerard. Your obsession with #TommyRobinson has ‘destroyed’ UKIP. You lost all our MEPs, 2 of 3 peers, all major donors, most Cllrs, thousands of members & UKIP’s political credibility. Beaten by #MonsterRavingLooney at by-election. YOU are the problem not the NEC. twitter.com/gerardbattenuk…

Gerard Batten @GerardBattenUK

The Chairman & NEC are out to destroy UKIP. I addition to running a gerrymandered NEC election they have now ‘suspended’ the membership of the Party Leader. The Chairman (appointed by the Leader), & who he has already sacked, has ‘suspended him. Who are the NEC working for? https://t.co/UytYO8hB7B

11:35 AM - 19 Oct 2019 25 8

twitter.com

Euro Guido (EuroGuido)

Comic interlude: UKIP party chairman says she has suspended party leader Richard Braine from the party.

8:42 AM - 19 Oct 2019 350 130

Sam_Jones · 2019-10-19T13:53:49.380Z

twitter.com

Sweary Bercow (BercowSweary)

THE FUCKING AYES HAVE IT https://t.co/Ju4A7KotF6

1:50 PM - 19 Oct 2019 270 120

Sam_Jones · 2019-10-19T13:54:15.428Z

Also, Boris is refusing to send the letter of delay. LOL.

abidingdude · 2019-10-19T14:03:01.334Z

Welp, now I know what Bercow’s “O” face looks like!

playingwithknives · 2019-10-19T14:21:08.391Z

and on it goes

draxen · 2019-10-19T14:22:36.725Z

More delay, no surprise.

strategy · 2019-10-19T15:21:01.768Z

Has any PM ever lost so many important votes so many times in succession?

So the question wrt Corbyn - did he know that he had the numbers, and thus could give a few Leavers permission to vote as they wished? Or was it really as uncertain as pundits suggested beforehand?

I guess that the next step is a general election.

Menzo · 2019-10-19T15:29:16.178Z

I get that it’s illegal for Johnson not to request a delay, but let’s say we get to the 29th…30th…and he hasn’t. Can he be sued before he actually breaks the law? Because on the 31st Brexit happens no matter what legal efforts are underway, right? Can’t Johnson just wait to be sued and let it happen?

draxen · 2019-10-19T15:33:34.862Z

In my opinion it’s all about optics. He must obey the law, he has no choice but…
He also needs to signal to his supporters that he is unmoved and will continue to fight for Brexit regardless. So he’ll grandstand (I refuse to negotiate any delay) and attempt to bend the law (send 2 letters?) as much as possible without breaking it.

What happens next is anyones guess. With Brexit anything could happen. The Government are signalling they will bring back a vote on the deal on Mon/Tues in some form. The Remain Alliance will attempt to block again…

Juan_Raigada · 2019-10-19T15:39:41.964Z

I think they will try to have a vote on Monday, and the speaker might accept (and that vote will likely pass) or reject it because of today voting, which would mean Scottish courts on Monday order him to send the letter or decide to send it themselves.

If it’s the former he either sends it or doesn’t and risks contempt of court, so the court or the parliament has to send it and he can keep his word.

So it’s either a vote gets passed Mon/Tues or we have an extension. If an extension is granted I can see labor trying to force an election before the deal can pass.

Basically, who the hell knows?

wavey · 2019-10-19T15:41:50.440Z

Menzo:

Can’t Johnson just wait to be sued and let it happen?

twitter.com

David Allen Green (davidallengreen)

In Parliament Square @joannaccherry affirms that ifJohnson fails to comply with the Benn Act she and others will be in Court on Monday to get the Order that the letter be sent

3:10 PM - 19 Oct 2019 480 140

(Joanna Cherry was the lead litigant in the Scottish case that eventually overturned the unlawful prorogation last month)

draxen · 2019-10-19T15:43:52.790Z

I expect the EU will now just wait. They don’t need to respond to a request for an extension until later (28th Oct maybe?). It seems they are content to try to help Boris get the deal passed not interfere too much with deal voting process. I predict they will say nothing either way until Boris has made at least a 2nd attempt at a vote.

Fifth_Fret · 2019-10-19T15:45:27.765Z

draxen:

and attempt to bend the law (send 2 letters?)

The legal system isn’t stupid. He can’t undermine the intention behind the legislation without ending up in serious legal trouble.

Menzo:

I get that it’s illegal for Johnson not to request a delay, but let’s say we get to the 29th…30th…and he hasn’t. Can he be sued before he actually breaks the law?

The deadline is 11pm tonight (or midnight? Not sure about timezone!). There’s a Scottish court ruling on Monday that will rule of forcing the issue if he hasn’t.