7637

IDS dismissing concerns over the corrupt US food industry and captured regulators somehow “lefty rhetoric”

He can say what he wants but the public know what the dangers of US style deregulation are.

7638

Or maybe (this was just the first academic international comparison I found):

I’d love to see an academic study that comes to the opposite conclusion regarding US food safety

The public know lots of things.

7639

What I fail to understand with right wing movements (aka nationalist/populists) taking over on a global scale is that they are merely pushing forward the interests of the elites. Privatization, cutting government social spending and reducing rules and regulations do not in any way help consumers or labor or environmental quality and in fact actively work against those interests. The benefits and bargaining power and resulting political influence all accrue at the top. I don’t get how ceding democracy to corporate interests are supposed to be a ‘good thing.’

Here’s a brief George Monbiot video taking a look at the wider picture. This will get dismissed out-of-hand on this forum because he’s not blaming the left/Corbyn or Labor’s “extreme policies” but maybe someone will find it informative.

7640

“clinton and Corbyn are opposites as far as progressive politics are concerned.”

True! Clinton won the popular vote by over 2%, Corbyn lost the popular vote by over 11%.

“Lots of people really like Labour’s manifesto”

That’s not what the focus groups say.

“Sanna Marin”

Except Sanna Marin didn’t win the election - her party did well, it’s true, but at the time it was lead by Antti Rinne, who is much more centrist in outlook than Marin. In any case, Marin’s coalition government crosses the political spectrum from centre-right, through centrists, her own party (centre left) the greens (mostly left) and the Left alliance (left / far left). She’s unlikely to be implementing any kind of revolutionary new politics.

So why does Monbiot spend so long talking about Finland?

“people want to purge”

Well, we know the Corbynites do.

–

Sure, there’s a lot of hostile media out there. But going from that to “so Corbynism is fine and we don’t need to change” (which is strongly implied) is the jump. And of course the other benefit is telling you not to believe what you are told - except by the Momentum-authorized media, of course!

I’m not saying he’s entirely wrong about the influence of the “billionaire media”, but that discussion needs to come from people who aren’t Corbyn cheerleaders.

7641

There are no dangers. For safety in the US is equivalent to that in the UK. As aceris points out, there’s actually science backing this up.

7642

He talks about Finland because it’s been successful in pushing back against disinformation - pretty important given their neighbor. But Nordic countries on the whole have been moving right though and I agree that Finland is no exception. (There’s not a lot going on in Europe to be optimistic about outside of the Green party rise in Germany.)

The main thrust of his message though is that given the current political environment the government cannot be relied on as the main driver for meaningful change. This assumes that one believes meaningful change is required. The problem with moderates and centrists as I see it is the implied belief that the status quo is fine outside some tinkering on the edges. I submit the current state of global ecological degradation and record inequality would belie that sentiment.

(Edit: I agree he is probably going too easy on Corbyn and maybe that detracts too much from his larger message. However he’s not wrong though that any left wing candidate would get pilloried in the media. See the US right now and how most Democrats are treated.)

7643

That seems like an overly narrow view of his critique, as he pointed out that right populists are taking over around the world.

I don’t necessarily agree entirely with the weight of his criticism - for ex., I think de-industrialization, de-agriculturalization and globalization hit suburban and rural areas hardest, and suburban and rural areas vote for populists almost without exception in the developed world, which indicates to me if that if there is something going on with billionaires and media they’re as much taking advantage of a situation rather than creating it. His solution is also too upper-middle class, sort of aspirational thing where we all become coders and start developing for Open Source or something. I don’t think increasing education is the solution per se, though again it’s an aspirational goal.

But he’s on the right track, imo.

7644

Only tangentially Brexit related, but the prominent Remain campaigner and QC, Jolyon Maugham, got up this morning and clubbed an urban fox to death, then boasted about it on Twitter. Needless to say, the Nation Of Animal Lovers took the news well.

7645

Me: lol those crazy guys at Newsthump

/looks closer

wtf

7646

The fuck? That is vile.

7647

Starmer seems to be the current front-runner for Labour’s new leader. Thoughts? Not familiar with him at all.

7648

Absolutely fine. Sensible, pragmatic, workable, doable centre left politics. The Corbynistas don’t like him and the worse they can dig out is 2-3 questionable decisions by the Crown Prosecution Service when he ran it. If he won the leadership election in 2015 we would have had a strong, joint pro-EU campaign from the government and opposition, a Remain victory and most likely a centre left Labour government right now.

7649

Um, no. We would still have a Cameron lead Tory government in that scenario.

But yeah, one thing I think the commentariat systematically underestimates is the extent to which Corbyn gave lifetime Labour voters the sense that voting Leave was a reasonable and sensible thing to do. Starmer (or any of the people who were actually leadership candidates in 2015) would have been much more passionate a defender of the EU, although I doubt they would have really remedied the awfulness of the remain campaign, which was project fear directed at well-off tories flirting with leave, while ignoring the left-behind in northern towns.

7650

His response to Solemani’s assassination was good.

I’m not sure there is the support in Labour’s member infrastructure and governance for a non-Corbynista leader but Starmer is certainly a decent candidate.

7651

Could you keep that argument in the appropriate thread, rather than trying to bring it elsewhere because you’ve been warned by a mod in that one?

7652

Starmer is fine. Dull, but still credibility is no bad thing for Labour right now. They’ve one hell of an uphill battle now.

7653

I don’t think he’s dull, except maybe in the sense of not a firebrand. He’s always struck me as engaging and articulate.

But, are the people who elected Corbyn still members? Will they vote for someone like Starmer?

7654

Speculation only…
I think it highly unlikely they’ll vote for Starmer. Their candidate of choice right now seems to be Rebecca Long-Bailey.

7655

As mentioned, polls suggest Starmer is the outright favorite to win at the moment. The clear divide is Leave/Remain, but since there are more Remain voters in Labour than Leavers, he has the advantage.

7656

I have no skin in this game but Starmer is a pretty good choice. He seems moderate, sensible, articulate. I’m not sure that Remain/Leave is relevant anymore. Will it still affect voting intention?

Despite the poll results there is a long way to go and judging from what the left side of the party are saying my bet is still on Rebecca Long-Bailey to win.