Brexit, aka, the UK Shoots Itself


#2610

Bear in mind also that if the EU lorries are blocking the ports, the non-EU food won’t be able to get in either.


#2611

London Airlift


#2612

British flagged carriers have no landing rights in any other country, and vice versa, other than those they enjoy by virtue of EU membership. Just sayin’.


#2613

Yeah, there’s an entire industries worth of smallprint on air travel and technical/safety certifications that is still on the to-do list.


#2614

The UK is fucked. :(


#2615

There’s no reason the eu lorries would be blocking the U.K. ports, as the government could reduce checks, assuming some level of borderline competence… oh right I see your point.


#2616

We already are! EU regulations don’t make it any healthier :).

It is, and quite tasty too. But only eat the shoots. Not the grown plant…

Also edible, and in some places a bit of a delicacy I hear.

Total digression but it won’t be long before insects are farmed en masse as a source of protein imho.

I only ever had rabbit. Plenty of that, and doesn’t require much to legally hunt them iirc.

The UK has comparatively low supermarket prices at the moment. Comparative as a share of earnings, certainly compared to where I am (everything is cheaper here, but wages are…about a half on average I think? Or less. I heard 600 euros/month quoted somewhere. It is the poorest or 2nd poorest region of Spain.

Absolutely true.

About food safety standards, I was under the impression Britain was something of a pioneer and standard bearer here, not the EU per se?

image


#2617

900€ is the minimum salary for full time employment, but some asshole employees do pay less (illegally, by saying the worker is working part time but making them work full time). Median in Spain is about 1400€. Both of those are gross and take home income is lower, but in the case of the minimum salary, not a lot (about 820€ after taxes, I think).

You in Andalucia? Andalucia and Extremadura are certainly the poorest by far.


#2618

I’m in Gran Canaria.

Stuff here is cheap but the vast majority don;t seem very well off.

There are some stinking rich people here though.

Quick googling says the UK average wage is £550 per week. Which means £2200, or about 2500 euros. That’s almost double the Spanish median

In my experience supermarket food costs more in the UK, but not as much as the difference in wage, so relatively it’s actually cheaper. I.E. food is not almost double the cost!


#2619

Spanish average is 1900€ monthly. Average and median are very different. UK average seems 33% higher.

Canary Islands is below Spanish average in GDP per capita, but not by much (9% lower than the country average). It does have a very weird economy, though, and I imagine there’s a lot of inequality in salaries.


#2620

I can only speak about what I see, and there is huge disparity based on where you live.

Parts of my neighbourhood are “bad” (have a bad reputation etc.) but there are some parts which are rather posh.

Anyway, going back to Britain, there’s a part of me that wants there to be some chaos regarding very basic things, like food etc, so that people see that there are some consequences. because right now it seems people are either:

  • saying the sky is about to fall

or

  • dismissing it all as project fear.

#2621

Count me in the project fear camp. I think it will be an adjustment rather than a catastrophe. It’s a bureaucratic realignment.


#2622

“Project Fear” = the conviction that: all trade associations, all professional associations, government agencies, business associations, businesses, regulators and any official body that has warned of the chaos and dangers of no deal Brexit are in fact, in league with each other and have made it up as part of a plot and conspiracy by thousands of independent bodies and people to pretend there will be an issue where there is not. Proof they present: Studies and reports prepared by them.

Those who say it will be fine: Liam Fox, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Ian Duncan Smith, various complete drooling idiots like Leadsom, Farage and his gang and various Colonel Blimps and Imperialist throwbacks from the hard right and far right, and a rabidly racist, xenophobic and jingoistic right wing media. Proof: none whatsoever, just soundbites and references to Blighty spirit and the war.


#2623

I think it’ll be more like The Millennium Bug. There has been advanced notice and hence planning and resources allocated to assuage the worst case scenarios.


#2624

Then link the proof. There’s a NAO report upthread, how about debunking that with evidence the National Statistics Office is wrong, or lying.


#2625

I have none and honestly, can’t be bothered to search for any - if indeed any “proof” exists. I was just stating my opinion :)


#2626

Feels dont overcome facts when it comes to decades of regulatory, customs and economic integration funnily enough.

Also, the Millenium Bug analogy has already been debunked.


#2627

Totally fair. I am firmly Remain but I have no idea if there will be chaos in the streets.

I do believe Brexit would reduce the UK’s GDP and standard of living for the foreseeable future however. But its just a belief.

What is a fact is I would have my rights as an EU citizen stripped from me, which is why I am so pro Remain and will support any party that wants to stop or (if the worst happens) undo Brexit and get us to re join the EU. I want my rights back.


#2628

The linked article is poor. It uses the term fact-checked but it’s all just opinion. With the Millenium Bug the variables were too many and the scope too vast to give a concrete determination even after the fact. Some countries did little to no Millennium Bug planning (obviously not wise) but instead fixed problems as they arose and suffered no major incidents (as far as I know). So there is also argument that it cost a lot of money needlessly - but I think that’s fine. The worst was planned for and consequently averted.

I liken Brexit to the Millennium Bug because:
a) there was advanced notice and planning
b) safety critical systems were prioritized
c) at the time there was a similar level of fear and panic in the press

The difficulty with Brexit is that there is obvious bias involved. If you’re pro Remain you’re going to talk up the terrible things that will happen because it promotes your political stance. This makes it even harder to determine the actual reality.

I base my (obviously unqualified, purely bystander) opinion on the following:
a) planning (as outlined above)
b) the UK existed just fine before the EU
c) all of the problems are bureaucratic or logistical and hence solvable
d) it’s beneficial to both sides to facilitate trade (in goods, services, intelligence etc)
e) the immense pressure that will be on the government and the EU to solve major problems quickly if any do arise

Will there be economic impact? Highly likely.
Will the sky fall in? No
I guess we’ll find out in March.


#2629

Also totally fair :)
Out of curiosity could you give some examples of the type of rights you mean?
EDIT: I don’t mean a list of all the EU citizen rights - I just mean the ones that are important to you.