Brexit, aka, the UK Shoots Itself


#2630

For example the right to live and work in any EU country? That’s a pretty big deal.


#2631

Yes, freedom of movement. I do think that is a wonderful thing but to me as an individual it’s not important. I can understand the Brexiteer argument that it’s the price you pay for stricter control of EU immigration and greater control over UK law, trade agreements etc

I can also understand that’s a good reason to be pro Remain if you’re considering moving to/and or working in the EU as a UK national.


#2632

No there hasn’t been sufficient planning, time, resources or investment. I linked proof above. The links to the national agencies like NAO readiness reports, and the endless quotes and reports from organisations, regulators, professionals, associations, bodies and experts in this thread you refuse to read or believe.

We expended billions of pounds and millions of manhours on the millenium bug, that’s why it wasn’t a disaster.


#2633

Freedom of movement and the right of residency. Thats really the primary one I care about. For my line of work having the right to go work and live in the EU is a huge deal.


#2634

This is simply wrong. As someone who worked through the Millenium Bug:

  • we knew for years it was coming
  • it was a very clearly defined problem of limited scope
  • it was entirely within our own power as a business to remedy

None of those attributes applies to a no-deal Brexit.


#2635

I worked through the Millennium Bug too, on affected systems ;)

I understand and agree with your points though. The comparison between the Millennium Bug and Brexit is a pretty poor one I admit. I still maintain there are some similarities though which is why it came to mind.

The level of fear and uncertainty espoused by the press (as the main one). That it was a solvable problem and plans/resources were put in place to mitigate it. That due to the sheer scale it was neigh on impossible to determine the overall outcome before hand.

EDIT: For what it’s worth - here’s the official info.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-governments-preparations-for-a-no-deal-scenario/uk-governments-preparations-for-a-no-deal-scenario

Brexit is a bureaucratic problem - it has bureaucratic solutions.


#2636

The solutions all require convincing other countries to help the UK, and other countries might not be so generous. So it’s a “bureaucratic problem” in the same sense that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a “bureaucratic problem”. Cause they just need to, you know, come to an agreement.


#2637

Except they haven’t, that’s the whole point. There may be bureaucratic solutions, but there isn’t the time to implement them. We have an entire goods economy built around just-in-time logistics and absolutely no way to maintain just-in-time logistics in a no-deal scenario, for years to come until we’ve upgraded our infrastructue and rebuilt supply chains. The government refused to start planning until well after the Article 50 notification and most of the procurement relating to the planning has only just started now (see the ferry scandal, for instance). There’s a whole load of shit the government assumed the EU would cooperate with outside of the WA to avoid a worst case scenario that it in fact is not cooperating on, for a variety of reasons. For instance, little things like contract continuity. It just came out the other day that British Airways’ parent company is going to have to restructure to be able to continuing flying in Europe because the EU doesn’t buy it’s arguments that it’s sufficiently domestically owned. It’s not the press raising these concerns, it’s little things like car manufacturers, supermarkets, trade associations, the National Audit Office, the Bank of England and House of Commons Select Committees.


#2638

Fun fact. Apparently the company that set up the boiler in our apartment (Madrid, Spain) uses an UK based insurer for the boiler insurance.

Or should I said used.

Starting January, they moved to a Germany based insurer. And this is not a small company. I wonder how common this is.


#2639

Extremely. All UK insurance contracts with EU counterparties have to be moved to EU27 entities. Now, in most cases that will be an EU27 subsidiary of a UK/global company, rather than a completely different entity. Here’s EIOPA from November.


#2640

We’ve shifted an entire portfolio of our EU derivatives clients to our new regulated EU entity. Huge numbers. We’re a major player.

This is mirrored across the City. The UK is basket case, the govt is incompetent, none of our projects rely on the UK govt to deliver, weve taken the default position that the UK will not be able to be used to domicile these contracts,/financial instruments and spent millions moving. All our peers have done the same.

If you want stability, if you want certainty, if you want to mitigate risk, if you want ease of access, cross border infrastructure etc then get the fuck out of the UK. I won’t even say “right now” you should have started your move over a year ago. Leave UK to its racists, they don’t want you here anyway.


#2641

Why haven’t you left, @playingwithknives? I guess family, friends, work?


#2642

I’m a mid level regulatory SME/professional.

Only execs and senior marketing/traders get moved. Everyone else gets made redundant.

For now, only that portfolio is moved, so I have teams to look after/advise based in london still but my long term future hangs in the balance.

Singapore is my favoured path tho, as I could probably get a Malaysian passport and retire and live like a king in KL I guess. Depends on wife and family of course, our ties and obligations here are very much set in stone and it would be violence/ethnic cleansing to require us to flee as refugees. There’s a chance of that albeit small.


#2643

That one is the biggest for me.

Closely followed and related to being able to holiday in all these lovely places.


#2644

sound advice!


#2645

And so it begins.


#2646

Ethnic cleansing in the UK? Was that a serious comment?


#2647

5,000,000 supremacists and racists were empowered and enabled by Brexit. See above for the survey around fear of islamisation/loss of white culture from a third of Brexit voters. This is real 14 words level white supremacy from millions of Brits.

Their faction, who politicians like Johnson are courting for votes in a leadership bid, are constantly calling for expulsion of Muslims from the UK. See above for the neonazi Brexiters video where he does just that.

For those of Muslim heritage like me, there is a real and significant danger that the politicians will give millions of racists what they want to win their vote. 7m Brexiters were absolutely fine standing with these 5m racists in the EUref and since. Millions still want to give these people what they want and have normalised hate and bigotry soo I dont doubt for a second people will soon want to “raise the repatriation question” no doubt with a “freedom of speech” defence about why people should be able to discuss it.

We are well down the path now. Brexit winning verified there is a place for xenophobia and ethno-nationalism in mainstream politics. It empowered the racists like they have never been empowered before. They won’t stop just because they have a blue passport.


#2648

I work in the Netherlands for a Dutch Tech company. We provide software for interactive presentations. All our servers were hosted in the UK but we brought them all back because our clients demand that there data geografically is located in a country governed by EU Law. There are probably hundreds if not thousends other companies doing the same.


#2649

Capital flight at the moment is about $1 trillion/ £800bn. Its barely started.