Brexit, aka, the UK Shoots Itself


#3071

Didn’t mean to embarrass anyone. Since this is a British thread, I thought it might be something unknown to an American.


#3072

Isn’t she supposed to go down with the ship?


#3073

Getting out of London hardly counts as not going down with the ship.

Anyway, all this hard core doom and gloom, one gets the impressions the media (the same fuckers who poisoned people’s minds and encouraged Brexit) are loving this crisis, and are printing as much panic as possible.


#3074

Media outlets are businesses that thrive on people reading bad news, so yeah. The worst thing ever would be that people were happy.


#3075

It looks like we’re heading for a deal…

Notice Jeremy Corbyn - he has his sleeves rollled up. This means serious business :)


#3076

I mean, there’s no way May’s going to accept those terms. It’s basically the EEA in all but name, plus customs union. And unless it’s in name as well, the EU’s probably not going to accept it either.


#3077

This violates a great many of May’s red lines, and I think the EU would at least reopen negotiations (presumably extending Article 50) if her red lines were dropped. I think there’s a better deal than May’s current one, within that bigger negotiating space.

But yes, May won’t ever accept that, nor will most of her party, and probably not the DUP.


#3078

Based on that article, sounds like staying in the EU…

In which case just stay!


#3079

Corbyn might want to appease the ethno-nationalists and facilitate a Tory Brexit, but Labour will be punished for it by their voterbase.

and now they are worried.


#3080

The letter’s the same old line about keeping options on the table as agreed at conference. At a certain point he has to, you know, choose one of the options.


#3081

His actual policy is LOOK! A SPIDER! /runs


#3082

Question for anyone who knows: how does a second referendum poll generally, then among Labour and Conservative voters? Does Brexit generally have equal backing among the two groups of voters (Labour and Conservative)?


#3083

Second question, not even remotely. First question, you’ll have to be more specific. The fact of a referendum, or the wording of it? The answer to the first also depends quite a lot on what the proposed wording is (eg May deal v Remain, May deal or no, ranked preference of three options etc) . Either way, a second referendum isn’t particularly popular.


#3084

Is there any way this whole thing doesn’t end in some form of disaster?


#3085

Depends on whether you consider a disaster for the Conservative party a disaster.


#3086

I mean for your country ;)

Both the US and UK went on benders, fueled by racism and propaganda. But we can undo much, if not most of the damage done here in fairly short order. Some orange juice, some eggs… we’ll be mostly OK by 2021. Your damage appears to be more lasting?


#3087

I can see some of the damage being undone if the WA, or something like it, gets passed, and we row it back into EU or EEA membership during the transition. But a) there’s no easy reversing the damage unleashed on EU citizens and minorities, and b) in a no deal outcome it will take generations to heal. Even in (what is for me) the most optimistic scenario of revocation of Article 50, things are going to get very ugly for a while.


#3088

I’d take the shirt term ugliness of revoking article 50 until the country gets its shit together and then leaves with a clear idea of what to. Do, and with preparations in place.

Even better would be analysing what people actually don’t like, seeing what’s due to the EU and what’s due to bullshit from bojo et al, and seeing what can be changed within the existing system (which as I understand it is actually a hell of slot.)

Hurting the country to satisfy myriad demands based on misinformation and downright lies of a very slim majority who don’t have a cohesive plan strikes me as insanity, especially as any plan enacted won’t appease said slim majority.

I bet no matter what shit happens now, the EU gets the blame.


#3089

From over here, it does not seem that there is any possible deal (aside from EU member in all but actual membership) which does not do great harm to the UK and its citizens. Sure the planning and prep sucks, but no amount of planning and prep makes real Brexit a good economic idea or can produce a good outcome.


#3090

So is Labour way less into Brexit than the Tories or more?
If way less, why wouldn’t they be for a second referendum that just said “Remain after All, Sorry for the Fuss”?