I’m well aware of NI politics. There has already been pressure in RoI on SF to take up their seats and no shortage of soundbites in the UK about similar.
That’s just one Irish newspaper.
Perhaps you should have been stressing about misunderstanding my post, and less about what I may or may not understand? :)
You dont think I would have written this if it wasn’t evidenced?
Press TV was invited in via hardline Islamist group 5Pillars.
And yes, the state owned propaganda channel for Iranian regime is controlled and directed by the Iranian regime including intelligence services.
Next you will be insisting RT and Sputnik are I independent. Come on. How do you think media in authoritarian, totalitarian regimes work?
As for the second, here’s one story, I’ll try and find the one about them boosting pro-Corbyn stuff.
Reddit Identifies 143 Accounts Linked to Iranian Influence Operations
Do you want videos of Corbyns tv shows on Press TV? I can’t see why you think the Iranians boosting a former employee and valuable ally against Israel a conspiracy. His links with Iran and Hezbollah are verified and real.
Edit:
It’s almost as if the republican bit in the initials IRA was their prime, core value.
Kedaha, Can you really see Sinn Fein swearing loyalty to good Queen Bessie?
For a single brexit vote over the hard border? Yeah.
Sinn Fein has gone from a predominantly NI party to a predominantly RoI party in the last 15 years, both in terms of membership, leadership and internal party power. RoI Sinn Fein had up until the last few months, a realistic chance at being in the next governing coalition in Ireland. Brexit (among other things including the impasse in Stormont) has been significantly hurting their credibility and very much making them look like they aren’t fit for government whether it be down South or up North.
Abstention isn’t an issue that resonates in the South, and even up North, the last poll carried out on SF voters found that 50% would accept the party making the strategic decision to end abstention. 50%. In 2017, before the prospect of a hard border. Even staunch DUP supporters are terrified of a hard border, never mind SF voters.
Not going to bother replying in depth to your conspiracy theory stuff as you clearly didn’t even read my post - I stated that PressTV wasn’t independent, that doesn’t mean they are “the arm of Iranian Intelligence Services”. The article from 7 months ago doesn’t even mention “Iranian agents brigading for corbyn on socmedia”. It only mentions that it found a grand total of 143 accounts over a period of 7 years linked to an Iranian influence operation. A whole 20 accounts per year on average, with no mention of Corbyn in the article, and this is your evidence for Iranian intelligence agents brigading for Corbyn on socmedia?
You’re completely changing the goalposts, because that’s what conspiracy theorists do. Just like you’ve always done when waffling on about Corbyn being an arch anti-semite.
There are enough negative things about Corbyn to criticise him over without inventing conspiracy theories out of thin air.
edit just out of curiousity, here’s the reddit post about Iranian influence. Of the example accounts they provided, there are a grand total of two comments/submissions about Corbyn. Both to /r/UnitedKingdom, both June 2017, both are simply links to articles (one The Guardian, the other Liberty Fighters). One had 42 karma and zero comments, the other 57 karma and seventeen comments. Yes, clearly this is incontrovertible evidence that Iranian intelligence agents are brigading for Corbyn on socmedia…
Ive personally run into foreign run socmedia accounts, be it pro-Brexit or pro-Corbyn. The Russians boost him because he brings chaos, uncertainty, infighting and strife. Iran is a no brainer. He’s Hezbollah’s man in London. If he was to gain power we would see anti-Israeli and possibly anti-Jewish legislation within days. Of course Iran want this.
The Sinn Fein thing is interesting, a counter to the DUP would be welcome.
Oh, I’m sorry. You’re right, I misread it.
Oh, an update to the Derek Hatton story.
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I think this is great. Both the Labour ones and the Tory ones. Nice to see MP’s putting the country first for change.
also re: Sinn Fein I also dont think them coming in at the last hour and changing the Brexit issue, even if its in my favour, is a good idea. I certainly wouldnt like it if it was the other way around.
Well, do you feel all the new TIG MPs should step down and trigger a by-election? After all, if you don’t like SF MPs taking their seats because they were voted in while on an abstaining policy, isn’t MPs who leave their party and continue to serve as Independents the same moral issue?
Hmm good question. I think two reasons.
a.) The people who voted for Sinn Fein voted for them understanding they would not attend Westminster. I am sure they would be ok with Sinn Fein voting just once to help scrap Brexit but also ok with them contnuing to not attend. So my objection is not to do with their voters, more to do with I dont want to win that way. I felt the same when May came to power with the DUP. Thats NOT what many Conservative voters voted for. They didnt vote for the DUP. I think its, icky(?) to achieve your goals that way, feels a bit smokey backroom.
b.) the TIG MP’s are actually representing there constituents wishes as far as I can tell, unlike the current May/Corbyn Brexit alliance. So I guess my answer is sure, after another referendum on the EU or a general election? So the electorate get a say on Brexit?
A muddled answer I know, but these are muddled times. Your thoughts?
SF constituents wish for remain or at least no hard border. Labour constituents (presumably) wish for remain.
Labour constituents voted for labour candidates, SF constituents voted for SF candidates.
I’d suggest not triggering a by-election is the bigger sin than ending abstention, the tiggies could vote against the whip and were free to say whatever they liked. Would you argue that a single tiggie would have been elected if they hadn’t run under a party ticket? If not…
We’ve had a good few party defections over here recently (and particularly going genuinely independent). I do honestly think that a by-election is the ethical decision to take if you were elected primarily as a representative of a party that you later quit.
I think under normal circumstances that’s right. In this case though when May/Corbyn are going against many of their own voters on the key issue of the day or constitutional crisis well, if the TIG folks need to go back to the voters because they have changed what they stand for, then I suggest Corbyn & May need to do as well.
I disagree provided you continue to vote with the party on everything important bar the reason you quit. It’s not as if they’ve taken up an opposing whip. In this particular case, a by-election would be absurd as it wouldn’t produce a new MP in time for the Brexit votes, so would effectively end up supporting leave.
But this gives them headlines and so a much larger platform for their views. It also makes it clear it’s not just talk, that they sincerely believe in the viewpoints they’re promoting. After all, it looks very much as if they’re throwing away their political careers for this.
If I was Sinn Fein I’d be working out what was the best outcome to promote a united Ireland.
I don’t think that would be to swoop in, be forced to swear allegiance to a queen you don’t like (at the mildest) and push to keep the status quo (which I also dislike).
I saw somebody mention that 69 MPs had left the party that they were elected for and only 4 had triggered a by-election so it’s not usual practice.
They (the Tory quitters anyway) could have made that clear in any number of votes when it would have mattered.
A United Ireland due to Brexit and a hard border = a return to The Troubles. Sinn Fein have demographics and time on their side, I’d hope that there are cooler and smarter heads in there to prevail over anything too precipitous, but with death of McGuinness, who bloody knows these days.
There’s a letter in the Guardian today signed by 200 Jewish Labour supporters:
We believe that the Labour party under the progressive leadership of Jeremy Corbyn is a crucial ally in the fight against bigotry and reaction. His lifetime record of campaigning for equality and human rights, including consistent support for initiatives against antisemitism, is formidable. His involvement strengthens this struggle.
If you’re wondering about the initiatives against antisemitism, I’ve also seen this list doing the rounds on social media, spoilered for length - it’s obviously collected to show Corbyn in the best light, but nevertheless a useful reminder of some of the things he’s done:
In October 1936, Jeremy Corbyn’s mother participated in the battle of Cable Street indefence of British Jews after British fascists had staged an assault on the area. Corbyn was raised in a household passionately opposed to antisemitism in all its forms.
In 23rd April 1977, Corbyn organised a counter-demonstration to protect Wood Green from a neo-nazi march through the district. The area had a significant Jewish population.
On 7 November 1990, Corbyn signed a motion condemning the rise of antisemitism in the UK
In 2002 Jeremy Corbyn led a clean-up and vigil at Finsbury Park Synagogue which had been vandalised in an anti-Semitic attack
On 30 April 2002, Corbyn tabled a motion in the House of Commons condemning an anti-Semitic attackon a London Synagogue
On 26 November 2003, Jeremy Corbyn signed a Parliamentary motion condemning terrorist attacks on two synagogues
In February 2009, Jeremy Corbyn signed a parliamentary motion condemning a fascist for establishing a website to host antisemitic materials
On 24th March 2009, Corbyn signed a Parliamentary motion praising British Jews who resisted the Holocaust by risking their lives to save potential victims
Nine years ago, Corbyn signed a Parliamentary motion praising “Jewish News” for its pioneering investigation into the spread of Antisemitism on Facebook
On 9 February 2010, Corbyn signed a Parliamentary motion calling for an investigation into Facebook and its failure to prevent the spread of antisemitic materials on its site.
On 27 October 2010, Corbyn signed a Parliamentary motion praising the late Israeli Prime Minister for pursuing a two state solution to the Israel/Palestine question.
On 13 June 2012, Corbyn sponsored and signed a motion condemning the BBC for cutting a Jewish Community television programme from its schedule.
1 October 2013, Corbyn appeared on the BBC to defend Ralph Miliband against vile antisemitic attacks by the UK press.
Five years ago Corbyn signed a Parliamentary motion condemning antisemitism in sport.
On 1 March 2013, Corbyn signed a Parliamentary motion condemning and expressing concern at growing levels of antisemitism in European football.
On 9 January 2014, Jeremy Corbyn signed a Parliamentary motion praising Holocaust education programmes that had taken 20,000 British students to Auschwitz.
On 22 June 2015, Corbyn signed a Parliamentary motion expressing concern at the neo-nazi march being planned for an area of London with a significant Jewish population.
On 9 October 2016, Corbyn, close to tears, commemorated the 1936 Battle of Cable Street and recalled the role his mother played in defending London’s Jewish community.
On 3 December 2016, Corbyn made a visit to Terezin Concentration Camp when Jewish people were murdered by the Nazis. It was Jeremy’s third visit to such a camp, all of which were largely unreported in the most read UK papers.
Last year, a widely-endorsed 2018 academic report found ninety-five serious reporting failures in the reporting of the Labour Antisemitism story with the worst offenders The Sun, the Mail & the BBC.
On 28 February 2016, five months after becoming leader, Jeremy Corbyn appointed Baroness Royall to investigate antisemitism at Oxford University Labour Club.
On 27 April 2016 Corbyn suspended an MP pending an investigation into antisemitism.
A day later, Corbyn suspended the three times Mayor of London after complaints of antisemitic comments.
On 29 April 2016, Corbyn launched an inquiry into the prevalence of antisemitism in the Labour Party. In spite of later changes in how the inquiry was reported, it was initially praised by Jewish community organisations.
In Corbyn’s first seven months as leader of the Labour Party, just ten complaints were received about antisemitism. 90% of those were suspended from the Labour Party within 24 hours.
In September 2017, Corbyn backed a motion at Labour’s annual conference introducing a new set of rules regarding antisemitism.
In the six months that followed the introduction of the new code of conduct, to March 2018, 94% of the fifty-four people accused of antisemitism remained suspended or barred from Labour Party membership. Three of the fifty-four were exonerated.
When Jennie Formby became general secretary of the party last year, she appointed a highly-qualified in-house Counsel, as recommended in the Chakrabarti Report.
In 2018, Labour almost doubled the size of its staff team handling investigations and dispute processes.
Last year, to speed up the handling of antisemitism cases, smaller panels of 3-5 NEC members were established to enable cases to be heard more quickly.
Since 2018, every complaint made about antisemitism is allocated its own independent specialist barrister to ensure due process is followed.
The entire backlog of cases outstanding upon Jennie Formby becoming General Secretary of the Labour Party was cleared within 6 months of Jennie taking up her post.
Since September 2018, Labour has doubled the size of its National Constitutional Committee (NCC) – its senior disciplinary panel – from 11 to 25 members to enable it to process cases more quickly.
Under Formby and Labour’s left-run NEC, NCC arranged elections at short notice to ensure the NCC reached its new full capacity without delay.
Since later 2018, the NCC routinely convenes a greater number of hearing panels to allow cases to be heard and finalised without delay.
In 2018, the NEC established a ‘Procedures Working Group’ to lead reforms in the way disciplinary cases are handled.
The NEC adopted the IHRA working definition of antisemitism and all eleven examples of antisemitism attached to it.
A rule change agreed at Conference in 2018 means that all serious complaints, including antisemitism, are dealt with nationally to ensure consistency.
Last year, Jennie Formby wrote to the admins and moderators of Facebook groups about how they can effectively moderate online spaces and requested that any discriminatory content be reported to the Labour Party for investigation.
Since last year, no one outside Labour’s Governance and Legal Unit can be involved in decision-making on antisemitism investigations. This independence allows decisions free from political influence to be taken.
(I hope it would go without saying, but: of course more could and should be done about antisemitism in Labour, and that anyone making antisemitic comments should be ejected from the party without mercy. I don’t want to give the impression that I think all is well and we should rest on our laurels, it is obviously something that requires eternal vigilance.)
I could talk at length about JVL and CPLD members on that letter but perhaps these two examples might give a better clue.
Are Candace Owens and Blacks 4 Trump representative of their minority groups?
Edit: with British Jewish support of Corbyn around 12% it matches American black support of Trump at 10-15%
I don’t think I understand this line. Why would there be a hard border if Ireland was united? Or did you mean a hard border between the newly-united Ireland and the island of Britain?
I’m really enjoying the conversation between you guys, though I confess I’m only following about a third of the acronyms.