Brexit, aka, the UK Becomes a Clown Car of the Highest Order

A little high on the rhetoric there. Forcing a policy which was opposed by large numbers of people in just about every single EU member nation over their heads was the height of arrogance and certainly did increase anti EU sentiment across Europe including the UK.

Whether it was the morally right thing to do is a separate matter. Her process was arrogant and its certainly silly to accuse everyone of being concerned about how that was handled as Nazi’s, come on now.

If ever there was a problem which required an inclusive tolerant process of discussion across the EU the migrant crisis was it.

I should note I am not suggesting Merkel created Brexit, that’s absurd, just that her handling of the migrant crisis was arrogant and counter productive.

I have some sympathy for May as the problem is basically intractable, but the sympathy is leavened by her dogged determination not to admit that.

How would she have done it un-arrogantly?

Well firstly it wasn’t her call to make. She decided it was time for her to lead on the issue, nobody else did. So the first thing she could have done is recognize on this issue Germany had an equal voice with Switzerland or Hungary, not a bigger one.

She should have been compassionate. Instead she treated the real concerns of vast numbers of EU citizens as if they were just little people in little countries to be ignored.

I think it deserved several EU summits about the issue to gain consensus. In particular the border states who had to deal with this first hand should have been the voices most listened to. Merkel didnt listen to them.

Freedom of movement (the jewel in the crown of the EU) must be, by definition the most collaborative process. If the UK for example invites several million immigrants from say Hong Kong then the rest of the EU simply must have a say because those new immigrants can move to other EU countries.

The same net migration (or more) could have been achieved with a lot less rancor if it had been done that way. Also hopefully some lives could have been saved with an actual consensus plan.

Its easy to think of solutions looking back of course I recognize.

Naturally being an immigrant myself I see immigrants as an opportunity not a problem, but I recognize that I speak from a position of privilege. I have very marketable skills and freedom of movement is a massive opportunity for me. For EU citizens who have different jobs or perhaps are reliant on already strained social services mass new immigration to their country is a perceived threat. Whether they are right or wrong, as we have learnt, ignoring a significant segment of your democratic population will have consequences.

So yeah thats my grab bag of thoughts if it makes any sense. A difficult issue no doubt.

Why would Germany have to get consensus of the border states? Those million asylum seekers where at Germany’s border, not in an EU border state. Those refugees where already in the EU. They were not invited, they were just allowed into German territory from refuge camps. Germany, if anything, eased other countries responsibilities towards the refugees (you simply can’t deport 1m people).

As for freedom of movement: asylum seekers do not have freedom of movement.

It was a purely German decision for Germany to make. It had no consequences in any other European country (other than having to deal with less refugees since Germany took so many).

But they do if German & so EU citizenship is granted. I mean nobody is suggesting withholding citizenship from German asylum seekers I would hope?. That would be crazy and create a serf class in Germany.

As explained above, that can take up to 7 years on average. Only half of those refugees will apply (the other half eventually returning). Against a background of 1.2 million net migration a year, 500k in 7 years is negligible and within the numbers Germany needs to absorb itself. Thus a vast majority will stay in Germany (having most likely acquired the language helping, btw. Moving to another country after 7 years means learning yet another language).

Again, no measurable consequence to other EU countries.

This was a German issue (and many Germans didn’t like it, but from other EU countries all Merkel did was cast our own leaders in a bad light).

Is a unicorn, as it does not fulfil the EU’s requirements re: Irish border.

Half are not going to return. In 2018 for example 437 Syrian refugees returned. They all had to be paid by Germany to do so, and also they are insistent they will not encourage refugees to return.

"This was a German issue "

Again as I mentioned I respectfully disagree. Mass immigration within the EU which has (rightly) freedom of moment is an issue for all member states and they all have an equal voice.

Mid term half will return. The EU gets 2.4m gross immigration from outside our borders and a net 1.2m, meaning more than half return.

Syrian refugees might want to wait until a regime change, but statistics show 50% of immigrants do return. This is just the reality of big numbers immigration.

True, but it is at least a defined relationship outside of the EU.

Problem is that’s an intractable issue, vis a vis Ireland. Any arrangement that does not violate the GFA is not Brexit enough for the hardliners. And anything sufficient for them is unpalatable for those who aren’t ultra nationalist ‘British Culture’ types.

Again I feel quite confident that there is not unanimity among the Brexit voters that a deal less hard Brexit is preferable to remaining in the EU. And had the choice on the referendum been between hard Brexit and status quo, it would not have won as such.

But they were already in the EU!

Maybe you should be more clear about what you think Merkel did. I’m not getting how the German government can’t decide whether to admit refugees to Germany or not, and I’m not really seeing any adverse consequences to any other EU country. If the worst thing that happens is that 7 years later all those people become German citizens and have freedom of movement, so what? Does every EU country not have its own citizenship regime?

Oh if you were referring to net migration numbers thats definitely possible. Its just not the same people leaving who came recently perhaps? EG: Those are not fresh migrants returning, but EU citizens emigrating to the USA/Canada or wherever?

In those numbers? No. Immigrants from poorer countries return on average 50%. Emigration of nationals to outside the EU is much lower.

Letting Juncker in did a lot of damage to the perception of the EU in the UK. Arguably did more damage then the migration thing - even if Merkel hadn’t allowed the refugees in the crisis would have continued and could easily have been used by brexiteers to generate racist sentiment. Letting Juncker in made it very easy to portray the EU as a corrupt old boys club, and also made a mockery of claims of British influence in the EU.

But if you let them into Schengen they can travel and claim asylum anywhere in Schengen.

That’s not as crazy or unprecedented as you would think. Germany had a non citizen guestworker program until the 70s, and the path to citizenship for former Gastearbeiter was not a smooth one. Even their children born in Germany pre-2000 were legally discriminated against in terms of citizenship rights. It’s true German attitudes have changed tremendously over the last 30 years, so maybe this isn’t a thing any more.

I speculate that Syrian refugees might want to return less than most other immigrant categories.

In any case it’s clear from the treaties that it was a German decision, not an EU decision, and I agree in the grand scheme of things it affects the other Schengen states very little.

No you pretty much got it. She unilaterally decided to admit a large number of EU citizens to equal many countries entire populations countries, she did not ask her equal partners she flexed her countries clout. The other error she made was encouraging people to leave processing countries and instead skip to Germany without process. That was and is a terrible idea causing much confusion for the already beleaguered border states.

That’s a big deal and as I say arrogant.

I dont deny her intentions were good nor do I say that these people should have been thrown out. What I say is that in her desire to help, she acted arrogantly and forgot to consider other impacted friends and allies.

@Aceris interesting on the guestworker program! Thanks for the info!

Yeah, they were already into Schengen in that case. All Germany did was allow them to move there and claim asylum there.

Technically, illegal immigrants (which refugees are until they claim asylum) do not have freedom of movement in the EU either. That’s how refugee camps come to be.

The Letwin amendment has passed. At least 3 ministers resigned to vote for it.

Which one is that? It gets so confusing :)

Edit: thats the one May opposed which is basically Parliament shoving her out of the drivers seat for a bit and taking control.

How something driven by a few hundred MP’s is going to be better than the Executive is something we will find out but it sounds like its going to be chaotic.