Brexit, aka, the UK Becomes a Clown Car of the Highest Order

I’m confused by that - I was sure I saw news reports of states not allowing the refugees to cross the border. How would they have the facilities to police that within Schengen?

Ah well, I was wrong.

Oh, they were trying to stop the crossings. And failing.

Germany’s decision did not change any border policy, since it was an internal German decision. Those people were already in or would have gone in anyway.

Croatia is not Schengen, but the others are.

If the 30 Tory rebels had half the spine of the ERG we would have had a GE in December. Then again I didn’t realize how utterly hopeless(*) May was until quite recently.

(*: I mean, I knew she was out of her depth, but it’s a matter of scale.)

I dont see how the house deals with this. We need a new executive, but there are plenty who don’t want to put Corbyn in. The sensible thing to do would be to install a Blairite or Ken Clarke or someone as an interim leader to implement whatever soft brexit / 2nd ref policy the house wants, and then hold a GE once the legislation and A50 extension is in place.

This idea that parliament can direct the executive is utterly toxic. MPs are imagining they can vote for some outcome and make May and the Tories pay the price, abetted by journalists and Remainer QCs indulging in motivated reasoning.

The traditional solution would be a general election, but that’s hardly appealing for the tories because:

  1. Half their own voters would see it as throwing away a chance at no deal.
  2. She would have to step down (which she doesn’t want to do), and the Tories don’t have a good way to replace her on a short timescale.
  3. The Tory party has to achieve a meaningful Brexit (i.e. not CU + SM), because failing to do so would force them to keep campaigning on Brexit forever.

Yeah same. They really blew it when they had a chance to dump her (May).

also @Juan_Raigada hey thanks for all the detail responses! Educational and good stuff. I hope I explained my position a little more as well.

The reporting on what was actually happening was atrocious.

Beckett falls 3 votes short.

This is super interesting. It’s almost like a reversion to the days before party politics,
when the Commons contested directly with the Crown. The Speaker becomes very important in setting the agenda.

Beckett was so stupid. “Let’s keep kicking no deal forward forever, the EU will totally agree to that right?”

Not to reignite this but I agree with you, for her personally as a matter of conscience. But not as much for others impacted by her decision.

To paraphrase the philosopher Toulmin “if you are going to be a saint your moral position is a lot clearer if you are not married with six kids”, IE: the people you already have an obligation to also should be considered.

After reading the responses I think my phrasing was inflammatory “overly hasty” may have been a better way of saying it than “arrogant”.

Heck yeah :) I am going to be feasting on this the whole week!

ok, last bit of the megpost,

Sir Vince Cable , the Lib Dem leader, asks Bercow if he will set up a committee to ensure that the indicative votes process runs smoothly on Wednesday.

Bercow says Oliver Letwin will take charge of the process, and he says he is sure Letwin will want to ensure it runs properly.

Welcome leader Letwin! :)

So British politics has progressed from a Clown Car to a Clown Bus, complete with the Clowns throwing out the Driver and driving the bus themselves?

Lmao, but yes.

Also thank god, Corbyn has finally seen the light, or at least now sees its the best net vote winner.

Here is the full text of what Jeremy Corbyn said in his point of order a moment ago.

Mr Speaker, I would like to congratulate the house for taking control.

The government’s approach has been an abject failure and this house must now find a solution.

So I pay tribute to [Oliver Letwin and Hilary Benn] and others, who have worked to achieve tonight’s result.

The government must take this process seriously. We do not know what the house will decide on Wednesday. But I know there are many members of this house who have been working for alternative solutions, and we must debate those to find a consensus.

And this house must also consider whether any deal should be put to the people for a confirmatory vote.

Where this government has failed, this house must, and I believe will, succeed.

That sounds like, “Our supporters mostly hate the idea of a second referendum, but we probably need one. We can blame May.” Is that a good read?

His party’s supporters love the idea of a second referendum. He personally hates it.

So very much like the Trump Whitehouse?

I’m German and I’m quite befuddled by this conversation about Merkel’s refugee decision and the surrounding effects. There is A LOT of misinformation shown in some posts here, some of which people already pointed out and corrected.
From “granting EU citizenship to refugees” over the factual events and their effects to basic numbers the whole thing probably would warrant more than one long response and correction post.

Quite honestly I’m astonished that so much outright false information was accepted and is spread by people who have access to google.
If this weren’t the Brexit thread…

It is the Brexit thread, and since refugees and immigrants were a large part of the issue, I’d say it’s germane.

This is a why a general election will probably not help in any way:

The Prime Minister’s popularity had been holding up fairly well since she lost her majority in 2017.

Talking about an average of about -20% favourable. Now down to -39%. But not to worry, the leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition is at -53%, so it’s all good.

So the PM will address the 1922 at 5pm tommorrow.

Some are expecting her to announce her resignation.

Surely she will instead just use this to delay efforts to remove her from within the party for another two days, at which point she will announce “Nothing has changed”. Again.

I think she’d announce her resignation directly to the cameras, not to the 1922 committee.