Can’t we have our cake and fuck it too?
… you simply need to clarify what you mean when you follow up.
We’re not mind readers. What you write is all we get. Guessing your intentions when they are obscure is a useless game that nobody wants to play.
What might he find non-sexually, non-metaphorically beautiful about her?
A man who says a girl is beautiful quite possibly means the exact same thing as a woman who says a girl is beautiful.
I’m glad I swallowed my soda before I hit the next page button.
I fucked this post.
Tortilla fucks this.
That’s beautiful, man.
:)
I like this post, but, you know, I don’t really like it, if you know what I mean.
What argument? You’ve stated your position, which erroneously assumes every man has the same feelings in their man-parts that you do every time they see a pretty lady; you’ve ranted about the mechanics of sexual attraction like an amateur evolutionary psychologist, as if the rest of us hadn’t passed through puberty as well; you’ve dismissed everyone who’s disagreed with you; and you’ve gotten into some seriously pedantic digressions about who gives a shit. And all of which shows zero recognition that the incident in question isn’t about whether or not Brian found a woman attractive because no one cares about that; it’s that he voiced it in a manner which a lot of BFers find creepy and objectionable, so he was asked to knock it off, which he did. He made a social faux pas, he got called out on it, we all moved on. As far as I can tell, you’ve spent way more time & energy obsessing over this one little incident than everyone else at BF combined.
Here’s how bad you’ve fallen: you’re making Starlight look like the reasonable one here. Starlight.
Ouch.
Is it really curious? Are you genuinely surprised? Curiously enough, I doubt it.
I’m all for anyone posting, but if I enjoy a bit of dudebro camaraderie now and then, what do I lose by behaving that way? What do the female posters add that we might not get in a more male-dominated forum like this one? I am genuinely curious, because my experience is females that play hardcore games represent such a tiny minority of their gender that they are not really representative of the female attitude towards hardcore games at all. Not that their voice isn’t important, but if I ask a random woman what games she plays on her computer or smartphone, the answer I get besides an odd look is that it isn’t the kinds of games that we discuss here. So if I want good discussion about a game, how much do I lose if some women feel unwelcome? If I want a good discussion about this week’s NFL games, how much do I lose if it’s 98% male?
I’m probably coming off as a bit hostile, but jesus, why should I even care if someone who posts about a game is male or female? All I want is interesting discussion about the game itself.
There’s also the odd disconnect between women who don’t like men objectifying them and the women who encourage us to objectify them. It’s all part of the mating game. Men pursue women so women want to attract men and men in turn want to seem worthy once they have got the attention of a woman. It’s very, very sexist and it bleeds over into a lot of the rest of life, so exaggerated breasts and muscles in videogames primarily aimed at adolescent males may be dumb but I get it. It’s not a whole different from Hollywood casting beautiful people in movies and TV shows instead of ordinary looking people.
If you apply that question to the people I regularly watch NFL Sunday with each week, you lose about half the group. Regarding game discussion, in the last week I have had in-depth conversations about the pros and cons of Destiny with four different women, and they all had their own thoughts and opinions on that matter. Why is the makeup of a specialized hobby interest forum like a gaming forum suddenly subject to the same demographic presumptions as the public at large? There are a lot of women who play what we would consider hardcore games and have things to contribute to a discussion. A lot of them are over at BF, it seems. Almost none are here. A question worth asking regarding that observation would seem to be: Does that seem like a coincidence to you, whether or not you consider it a loss? Because I don’t think it is one. As others have said, that’s what BF is, and Qt3 doesn’t have to be that, but there’s a difference between accepting that difference and kidding ourselves about what that difference represents.
Are you curious? Are you really?
Is it really curious? Are you really?
That you’re a better person than the people posting here?
The women playing games over at BF seem to be playing eccentric Japanese dating sims, from what I could see. That shit is like fun kryptonite.
As my first post in over 2 years here, I just want to comment on how hilarious this thread is. There are simultaneous discussions going on with:
- People arguing about if calling women attractive means you just want to fuck them but what if it’s your family or something? Something something SJW?
- We really should get more female forum members
Yikes people.
edit: sorry, forgot 3) Why would a girl have a valid opinion? Wut. Serious, wut?
What do you lose personally? Probably nothing, if you don’t care what anyone who doesn’t feel welcome on Qt3 - or at least feels more welcome somewhere else - has to say. But if the only question you ask about diversity is, “What’s in it for me?” - congratulations, fine case of self-absorbed myopia you’ve got there.
I trust you’re familiar with the hostile work environment; the same concepts apply to any social venue.
What do the female posters add that we might not get in a more male-dominated forum like this one? I am genuinely curious, because my experience is females that play hardcore games represent such a tiny minority of their gender that they are not really representative of the female attitude towards hardcore games at all. Not that their voice isn’t important, but if I ask a random woman what games she plays on her computer or smartphone, the answer I get besides an odd look is that it isn’t the kinds of games that we discuss here.
Is this gonna turn into another “hardcore vs casual gaming” argument? Or a “real (male) gamers don’t play ARGL BRGL!!” shouting match? Because I would like to know now if I should get off this particular Tilt-a-Whirl.
I’m probably coming off as a bit hostile, but jesus, why should I even care if someone who posts about a game is male or female? All I want is interesting discussion about the game itself.
Let’s try a parable, grasshopper. You’ve heard the one about the blind dudes and the elephant, right? One of them touches its feet and thinks it’s a tree; the next one touches its trunk and thinks it’s a snake; etc. If you get enough blind men touching different parts of the elephant, they can eventually put together a complete picture.
But what if all of the blind dudes are standing in the same place and touching the exact same part of the elephant? Well, then you just get an echo chamber and an incomplete picture of the whole (and probably one very upset elephant), because everyone’s perspective is essentially the same. That, in a metaphorical nutshell, is what it’s like when a homogenous group of mostly-white, mostly-straight, mostly-dudebros discuss games; you mostly get a bunch of same-y opinions.
There’s a difference between discussing games that are stereotypically male and using language that is stereotypically male. In other words i don’t have to state the obvious that there are probably not many women playing Europa Universalis 4 when discussion EU4, but that doesn’t mean that i should expect or anticipate women not participating in discussions about that game just because i believe that to be true, nor make that true and discourage women from participating by using exclusionary or clubhouse language during that discussion. But i agree that you should be able to speak about whatever game you want, and that by aggregation certain forums tend to have certain styles of games that are predominant, so no one is asking anyone to pick “female friendly topics” or whatever. Just be considerate with your language whatever you’re discussing.
I’m probably coming off as a bit hostile, but jesus, why should I even care if someone who posts about a game is male or female? All I want is interesting discussion about the game itself.
Ideally, i don’t think it should matter either (it doesn’t matter to me), but see my response above.
There’s also the odd disconnect between women who don’t like men objectifying them and the women who encourage us to objectify them. It’s all part of the mating game. Men pursue women so women want to attract men and men in turn want to seem worthy once they have got the attention of a woman. It’s very, very sexist and it bleeds over into a lot of the rest of life, so exaggerated breasts and muscles in videogames primarily aimed at adolescent males may be dumb but I get it. It’s not a whole different from Hollywood casting beautiful people in movies and TV shows instead of ordinary looking people.
This really isn’t the place to have this discussion in this thread with all these other things swirling around because it’s so hard to navigate these verbal waters with the exact cardinal adjectives and adverbs that will see you through the assumption icebergs and not piss a whole lot of people off, but I’ll try. Basically third-wave feminism boils down to agency, at least as far as we guys are concerned. I have some concern with the long tail implications but that’s not really relevant here, so the distilled version women want their sexuality to be under their complete control, and when you objectify women publicly, and here’s the kicker - even if the photograph or graphic being presented was of a women knowing letting herself be objectified at that past moment - you’re taking that control away from them. It’s how as a guy you learn the language of style and the context of fashion that a woman use to signify her intent as to whether she wants to be noticed as “sexual” or not, and even that is a bit of an presumptuous ivory pedestal ideal; it’s on her terms and on her time, not the observers. And, not to mention, most of the time these aren’t actually women being discussed but animated women from some game, created by men. Now, in practice, it is hard for guys to figure this stuff out because it does seem contradictory on the surface, but that’s just because we are lumping all women together and in a superficial and, to be fair, not endearingly sexist way.
I will say, for the record, that i find it amusing that many of the same people that talk about sexism in the game industry seem to completely ignore those wacky Japanese games so many of which are literally pedophillic in nature, design, topic, or art with usually completely retrograde gender roles. There are some exceptions and i’m aware of the existence of those “homosexual” genres whose Japanese name escapes me, so i suppose there’s that for the other side of the scale. But what percentage of Japanese “otaku” games, if made in America, would get the developer arrested? Over 10%? 50%?