Wait. Now I have to treat women as fellow sexual human beings but respect the fact there are differences between genders, while at the SAME TIME recognizing the burden of historical oppression and marginalization they have been subjected to? When do their demands end? Whats next, equal pay or something? Some people want the moon on a stick.
I am joking, obviously
I had no idea it was a Firefly reference until this thread. And I still knew what it meant.
I thought the argument is about freedom. Instead to accepting that the historical way of doing things (communicate, think etc.) is the BEST way or the ONLY way, women/people in general should be free to choose rather than gang-pressed to conform.
One thing that I do know. This thread has made me take a long look at how I present myself here. I realize that I have things that I need to fix.
Aye. I was goofing off. Sorry Friday afternoon :)
I think all of us are with you on that front. I thought I was really forward thinking, but there is a lot to unpack in this thread that I never considered.
It is Saturday afternoon here ;)
You and I have different ideas of what is exclusively male. “Hit” is aggressive. Agreed. I don’t see why it is exclusively male. Basically, you and I seem to be on different pages on whether certain emotions like sexual desire or aggression are gender specific. For me, they are more commonly associated with males, but not specific to males. Similarly, things like empathy or nurturing natures are more commonly female associated, but not female specific.
Would you have a problem with “hit it” used to refer to things in real life, among your friends? I’ll concede it would bother me if only the guys in my personal group of friends used it and used it very frequently, but that’s not the case for me.
I have never, ever seen a female say I’d hit it. Ever. Anywhere. And I know that using the word female is also problematic.
We’ve really gone down the rabbit hole now. :)
I’ve used “I’d hit that” in reference to a delicious looking steak, a sweet sports car, a basted turkey, and God knows what else. So have my buddies. Whenever it happens the other person gives the hitter a knowing look and a nod. Because hell yeah, that’s a great looking steak. I wouldn’t just eat it. I’d devour it. I’d make sweet love to it. I’d fuck it. Not really, but you get the idea.
Women (mostly) just do not use “fuck” or euphemisms for fuck interchangeably with eat, defeat, own, conquer, take, possess, dominate, etc. That’s a guy thing. It comes from the essentially male impulse to sexualize everything.
I’m pretty sure that if we counted up every guy that’s ever said “I’d hit/fuck that” and every woman that’s ever said it, the male list would be exponentially longer.
From what I’ve read, you’re not allowed to say that a person is well-spoken unless he’s black or non-white.
And that women can’t empathise with “I’d hit that” or allowed to have sexual desire. For example, I’d hit that with Jude Law is not alright, because women.
I just feel that both people of other races and non-male gender have a better capacity to either deal, or actually be able to embrace the language than we think. I don’t think it is an insult to say someone is articulate regardless of race, or insensitive to say that something is sexually attractive. I would like to think people don’t take offence either way.
I don’t think you answered my question: do you have a problem with your usage of it (e.g., referring to things rather than people) and your friends’ usage of it? Do you only do it “with the guys” or are you okay using it in front of your female friends or if your other male friends do the same? If you’re okay with it in RL, are you saying that we should apply a higher standard to our online line discourse? While I agree with you that men have sex on the brain more than woman (by A LOT), that doesn’t make sexual innuendo per se masculine.
As I mentioned above, I personally apply a do what you do in RL rule/approach as to my conduct online. Some degree of crudeness and sexual innuendo is not uncommon in RL speech for most people when conversing with their friends (of any gender), in my experience. Frankly, it’s a common part of humor and banter between friends. Yet, it seems like you take an approach of excising all sexual innuendo and crudeness from conversation. I think that’s unnatural and frankly very dry. Does that mean all sexual innuendo and crudeness is okay? Of course not. But when it isn’t gender specific (at least to me) and relatively mild, I see no problem with it.
There is a standard you’d use in front of your friends, and a standard you’d use in front of your mom. I would never say “I’d hit that!” or make allusions to masturbation in front of my mom.
It’s nice to be able to converse online as I would with my friends, without my mom around. The thing is, not everyone who reads what I write is yet my friend. And some of them might react just as my mom might.
If such a person decides not to stick around, I have only myself to blame. After all, I was the one who chose to use language that I wouldn’t use around my mom.
This is what I generally do as well. A few exceptions, but this seems the most common sense approach.
Every evening after work, a bunch of us guys gather in the parking lot to talk about all kinds of things, from work to women. We have one guy in particular who is quite fond of loud, excessive swearing, and is also fond of talking about all women, but only insofar as where they would place on his “I’d hit that” scale. And frankly, when he starts that up, most of us get bored and leave, as it’s just not very interesting, regardless of how tasteless it is.
But sometimes, a few of our fellow women employees will join us, which is always a relief, because he shuts that shit right down when they appear.
I’m meandering now, but I think my point is that in general, even just joking around that way, even harmlessly, is pretty boring, because it’s all been said before, and there is only so far you can go with a conversation like that. It’s very predictable stuff. I haven’t heard anything actually interesting along those lines in years.
If you want to be super duper progressive, from what I can tell from conversations with super duper progressive people like my wife, you should all address his behavior directly in that conversation instead of leaving. What you’re witnessing is something (actually several things) progressives are trying to get society to move past, and usually opening up a conversation about it can help to make the person more thoughtful and they might change their behavior. It seems like it won’t do anything but maybe this guy has kids or other friends who talk similarly and maybe it will help change the conversations he has with others.
Basically, if you see it, say something, then maybe we can get past this stupid shit. :)
Believe me, we’ve tried. He’s utterly incorrigible.
But maybe we’re being too tactful. I remember one exchange I had with him:
“Y’know, Cary, there’s more to life than just sex. Women don’t like that kind of talk.”
“What are you, gay? Of course they do. I remember this one time when I was delivering pizzas, there were these two hot women there, and they invited me in, and…”
And then he went into another one of his long-winded Penthouse Letters fantasies, while we just kind of laughed at him and shook our heads. Which is apparently exactly what he wants; attention. Even if it means most of us just sort of wander off, leaving him with his few like-minded buddies. I shouldn’t say “like-minded”, because they’re not. I guess they just tolerate him, because he can be genuinely funny if you can get him onto any other topic. I should also mention that this guy is a year older than me; he’s 58. Yet when it comes to women, he’s 14. Seriously. It’s pathetic. And yes, he was delivering pizzas as a second job at age 56; he just quit two years ago. Not that there’s anything wrong with pizza delivery, especially when it gets you laid as often as him. :)
This seems so simple to me.
I’ve followed this thread from the beginning, but haven’t expressed any opinion because I was not in any way a player in any of the QT3/BF thing (thankfully) although I was and am a constant lurker of both forums for quite a long time. While I find any disparagement of either forum distasteful, I do feel that QT3 is a much more comfortable place for me after the split. I almost never posted before strictly because of the attitudes of some who were here, but now I will/do post when I feel I have something appropriate to contribute. I have not felt any inclination to post in BF for the same reasons.
I am, however, offended by the suggestion that the phrase “he/she is well spoken” implies negativity. I’ve used it many times as a compliment towards all races/genders and had no idea it could ever be interpreted as insulting.
Even as a non-american, I understand the negative implications in certain situations regarding that particular line. Its perfectly fine to use common sense and also apply the idea that even if YOU don’t think something is insulting, others may. Its then up to you to apply empathy and understanding to your relationship with your surroundings.
Ok, fair enough, IF (very large IF) “well-spoken” is somewhere, somehow thought of as an insulting disparagement, I suppose I have many apologies to make.
…no offense, but I don’t think this is true…