I’m not pro mob justice or anything (whether it’s on social media or not) but I still stand by my “don’t be a dick to people” guideline. It’s served me well so far, hopefully it continues to do so.
Hey, I’m thoroughly on board with “don’t be a dick”.
But you combined it with this.
And it’s just not true.
It’s kinda like getting the vaccine. Maybe it’s not 100% but your likelihood of being a critical case is significantly reduced! :)
I’m quite certain that it gets out of hand or goes wrong, and have said so. Now what?
I don’t know if it’s confirmation bias or recognizing that there’s very little that can be done. If for some reason someone gets possibly millions of people mad at them, what can you do? You can’t stop people from being mad at other people, maybe you can stop people from going to social media about it, but that has it’s own problems.
If you go live in a small village and for some reason the whole village gets mad at you, it’s going to suck. And guess what, for some stuff, we’re kinda living in a small village.
Opening more avenues of civil redress for people who feel particularly hard done by might be a fruitful line of discussion. But that’s not going to stop people being piled-on in the first place. People are free to be mad at on Twitter and associate with whomever they want.
I just realized that Jeffrey Toobin is back on CNN.
I saw him on the TV, and was like, “isn’t that the dude who jerked off on a zoom call?”
Yep!
Apparently not cancelled for that though!
As much as the right loves to cry about how awful cancel culture is because it ruins people’s lives, it seems to be more often than not that The Cancelled are able to reintegrate with society after a short break. At least those who dodge criminal charges, anyway.
Well, I think this is more of a case of “There is a club, and you are not in it.” If one incompetent and morally challenged media hack can be fired, then any of them can, and so they band together to protect their trough.
Well, I don’t think CC is much of a problem (unless you want to be critical of a particular ally or something), and is generally a good call, but I still have issues with firing someone for, as far as we know, a very momentary lapse unrelated to work on non-work hours. I’m fine with it as a recluse, but it’s not really a standard I can expect people to follow 24/7. We’re not built that way.
Not that I know why she was fired, she’s probably at will anyway, and she doesn’t sound like someone who wouldn’t “lapse” again; but I don’t have to like it, and I don’t think (what we know) helps.
It should be considered, in general, socially abhorrent to post video of someone filmed without their permission, without blurring the face and removing personally identifiable information. If it’s a criminal matter, share it with law enforcement and let them decide how much needs to be public. If you want to make a point about prevailing social mores, you can do it without implicating a specific individual in an inherently unfair space. Otherwise, don’t involve the world in a personal beef just because you happen to have an audience and a handy digital record.
100%
And I read the vice article on what this guy alleged about his Airbnb stay.
And it struck a chord.
I’ve had some crazy guests.
I don’t think I agree. Among other things, it is the filming of people without their permission, and the posting of those films on social media, that has exposed and finally proven longstanding claims about the widespread racist brutality and lawlessness of policing. I certainly don’t regret that, and the argument that the person with the video should just turn it over to law enforcement agencies is proven naive and wrong nearly every week, when what those agencies do is try to bury it.
Beyond that, there is a basic power imbalance between the white, racist majority and their victims. I don’t have any real objection to something which helps to redress that power imbalance, and videos on social media are surely preferable to guns and bombs.
Again, I’m certain some people take it too far, or use it for other nefarious purposes, and that is deplorable. But that is true for any sort of social pressure, and I don’t think abandon the use of social pressure directed at upholding beneficial social norms is the answer.
Do you have a right to privacy in a public place?
@antlers said “socially abhorrent” not illegal. Social conventions aren’t built around rights, or at least consider many more factors. I totally agree with everything @antlers posted. Stepping outside my house doesn’t mean I give up a reasonable expectation that I’m not going to be made into a public person. I post shit on this forum all the time that I’d rather my co-workers/employer didn’t see. It would be relatively easy for someone here to peruse my posts and figure out who I am and where I live and work. I rely on social conventions around privacy and the sense of community here to provide some protection, and lack of that community sense is why I don’t participate in Twitter or Facebook.
I don’t think society should abhor e.g. the people who filmed Eric Garner’s murder and posted it on social media. You?
Peace officers and public officials in performance of their duty have no legal or social expectation of privacy.
I don’t think society should abhor the people who filmed a bunch of white supremacists carrying torches and chanting the Jews will not replace us, then put those videos on social media. You?
Sure, you’ll be able to find situations where I’ll agree with you. I guess that’s the point of social conventions. There’s no hard line. There are degrees, and we kind of figure out where we stand by consensus. This case in particular falls near enough whatever line already exists that people who would be otherwise in lockstep agreement happen to fall on different sides. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Morals are always contingent and using social vice legal pressure to enforce them allows them to be blurry when necessary.
In the real world, this lady lost her job. Regardless of what any of us decides or posts here, the system, such as it is, has worked out the resolution already. The whole point of this discussion is maybe just to shift the needle ever so slightly. If we’re working out our morality collectively this is how we do it.
I reckon having some minor altercation with a stranger, tracking them down and getting them sacked is a good example of being a dick.
I guess a possible solution would be some kind of legal protection for workers. We have something called unfair dismissal where you can force an employment tribunal (independent arbitration). Perhaps something along similar lines to that. Some method where the employee can take action against the company if they’re dismissed without sufficient grounds or evidence.