Career Advice/Experiences With Starting Over/Reinventing in Mid-40s with Depression and Anxiety

I agree with the first part. But the problem is that while I agree the state I’m in now prevents me from assessing jobs and career paths because I’m all fucked up, I’m not sure how to end that state.

I have not done 12 step specifically, but I have worked on mindfulness, meditation, remaining in the present, that type of thing (sounds very similar to what you are describing).

I’ve tried. It is surprising hard to find someone. My therapist flat out told me, he does not have any solid recommendations, that there is a big shortage of decent practitioners.

I am glad you made a change and feel better. I do worry about the fatigue I feel - I just wished I could feel something positive toward something else before making a leap. But over the years, I have come around to agreeing with you - I have to change something. Which is why I’m pretty far down the road toward taking at least short-term leave, with the desire to try for long-term disability. Not because I want to be on disability for the rest of my life, but because I’m just falling down right now, and I need some space to figure things out.

Thanks for this. It’s a difficult topic, because I think there are things where a person does have to be realistic. A job is not going to be 100% fun or pleasant. As my therapist said though, it should be kind of 20% hate, 20% love, and 60% tolerate without misery. He said for me, it’s more 20% tolerate, 80% hate with misery.

I’m concerned that there is something ugly in my attitude or personality that causes this, but I guess I will try to deal with that later if it turns out to be the case (if other jobs make me miserable, if a leave doesn’t help, etc.).

I wish I had more hard skills that were math/science related. I’m not horrible at them, but they’ve never been strengths. The problem with getting into a different career is the complete absence of passion for something that might be another career. It’s hard to imagine having the patience to work for something that you just don’t have passion for (or even interest in).

I have actually been dating someone for two years. It frankly is not going well. I think we might be fundamentally incompatible. There are a lot of really good things, but at the end of the day I’m not sure it is going to work out.

Frankly, outside of her, I think it is going to be very hard to date if I’m not working. “Jobless, seeking disability” really doesn’t light them up on match.com.

Hate to hear your story, man. I don’t have any insight into mental health related questions but I can certainly relate to dead end jobs that feel like they’re killing you. Think we’ve all been there.

For what it’s worth, I was a pretty aimless student myself. Decent enough grades but I didn’t have a plan or any real passion for pursuing a career. And when I got to college, all my advisors suggested a business degree since at least I’d be able to make a living. Ended up with a masters degree in accounting, got a job, studied for the CPA … and I hated it. Just an awful fit for me.

I talked around with some friends in IT, picked up a little on the job and then I took a job installing and supporting financial systems. Hey, they told me, you’ve got the business background, we’ll teach you the technical stuff. And I really got into it. Over the last 20 years I’ve kind of developed and picked up experiences and I’m really liking what I do.

So I don’t know if that helps, but is there anything you can do that might be a half step in a different direction? Any way to leverage what you already know into something else you may find more fulfilling?

I’m really sorry to read all this, and hope you’re able to find your way through it.

One completely out-there suggestion which may be unhelpful or reductive, but it’s helped me in the past and may help you too. Have you ever tried to develop any sort of artistic interest? I don’t even mean you personally being creative and suddenly creating something out of thin air, but something like taking up a musical instrument? Getting a cheap keyboard and taking some online lessons, or finding a guitar or saxophone or anything else and just working at it until you get comfortable at it?

It probably wouldn’t get you anywhere in your career - lord knows there are enough destitute musicians out there - but the simple act of playing music, even just repeating the notes someone else wrote in a purely mechanical way, can be really joyful, and might help a bit with the general malaise and disinterest you’re struggling with. It could help as a purely therapeutic thing in your spare time, and maybe help reset your mind a bit for other things.

I can only sympathize, and hope everyone can find their way back to hopefullness.

This seemed strangely related to your plight, @SlyFrog. Apologies for linking a YSK thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/635bbc/ysk_the_symptoms_of_burnout_before_it_causes/

Severe insomnia… lack of sleep can hurt everything else. Have you tried targeting that first? Drugs to put you sleep, a sleep study to check for breathing issues while asleep, etc. Also the less invasive stuff like bright sunlight for 30 minutes in the morning, blue-blocking glasses worn at night. (If you have ever noticed that you don’t have insomnia and/or naturally get up early in the morning feeling rested while camping, light therapy will almost certainly help you.)

http://humbledmba.com/become-a-morning-person-how-to-end-insomnia-f has some good starting points.

As popular as stuff like Flux is, in my experience it has almost no effect unless you spend your entire evening doing nothing but staring at a monitor in a dark room. You gotta wear the silly grandmother sunglasses to really make a difference.

As for practical recommendations, any chance you can work less time for less money at the same place? Might be a non-scary way to lower your anxiety without taking any permanent steps. Go from targeting 8 hours a day to 6 or something?

I have thought about that type of thing. Unfortunately, it is the type of exploration best done in your 20s and 30s, not your 40s and 50s.

I know, the whole proverb that the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now. But there does reach a point where it is “too late” to effectively change and have a second career. I’m not sure I’m there yet, but I know getting started in IT at around age 45 seems very daunting. I’m not sure it’s doable.

I have tried to learn guitar, and have tried to pick up other hobbies. They kind of suffer the same fate - no energy, no real drive. I find myself doing them because I’m supposed to be doing a hobby, not because I really want to get to them.[quote=“Skipper, post:45, topic:129147, full:true”]
This seemed strangely related to your plight, @SlyFrog. Apologies for linking a YSK thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/635bbc/ysk_the_symptoms_of_burnout_before_it_causes/
[/quote]

Thanks for that. I’m sure I’m burnt out as well. But one thing I’ve noticed is that they give a lot of ways to tell you’re burnt out, but without a lot of pragmatic ways to reverse it. From articles I’ve read on this stuff, it’s usually fluffy things like, “take a vacation” or things like that, which are great advice, but are not going to cut it at this point.

I have. I’ve tried a bunch of different drugs for sleep. Some work, none are supposed to be the types of things you take long term. Most of them also tend to fuck me up a bit more the next day as well (even more than usual).

I have tried all of the sleep hygiene stuff that I have read and been advised. I have also gone in for a sleep study, but they would not give me one, because they thought it was clear it was stress/anxiety/depression and not a physiological cause. I did spend a fair bit of time with a “sleep doctor.” It helped some, but did not resolve things. The sleep stuff really cycles with work as well. I definitely sleep better when I do not have projects at work (though that only goes so far, as I also eventually have anxiety build up when things are going to be slow that I’ll be fired - not having a lot of work is not good for an attorney if you want to keep your job).

I don’t know about that. I remember even when I was in college seeing senior citizens in some of my classes. But yes, time and age make things harder. If I had my career switch to do again now, with a family, house, in my mid-40s, sure I would have had to think it through more carefully.

But I get what you’re saying - right now you’re low energy, low motivation, and you are looking for a spark to light a fire inside you. What about while you’re looking for the big change, you take part in a few little ones? I used to volunteer at the aquarium and participated in a beach naturalist program, to show little kids all the awesome stuff we have available to us practically in our back yards. I love all that, but I wasn’t looking to get a degree in oceanography (though that actually sounds kind of awesome). Back before I had kids, this was my main point of contact being around little ones and their constant curiosity, and I found it invigorating. Not that this would work for you necessarily, but something like that? Soup kitchen? Helping senior citizens with their taxes?

I’m in the middle of my second ‘career reinvention’ (aka blind panic). First time I was 33, lost all my work as a freelance script reader. I panicked for months, decided to become a lawyer because I didn’t know what the hell else to do, took the LSAT, got into some schools, and was on the verge of going when through strictly personal connections I got hired at Yahoo Games. 8 years later I got laid off. I figured, surely with 8 years at one of the world’s biggest internet companies, getting another gig would be a breeze. Right? Riiiiight?

After a solid year of incredibly demoralizing job hunting (>150 applications sent in, maybe 10 phoners, no face to face interviews, no offers) I have some part time work back in the first industry I worked in (film production) and hoping to develop it into something more substantial. I have mad hopes that I might be able to ‘make it’ in the film industry after all, but I’ve been disappointed too many times to be confident in those hopes. On the tech side, I’m doing a bunch of online technical training with an eye to webdev work, shoring up the skills I should have been developing while at Yahoo. It turns out that a lot of ‘on the job experience’ at a Hyper Mega Industry Leading Internet Company amounts to being bored in meetings, being inundated with pointless emails, and watching people scribble incomprehensible things on whiteboards. It is however very inspiring to actually just start learning new things. Going back to community college, doing Team Treehouse, etc. – there’s so much knowledge waiting to be plucked. Monetizing it is another matter.

It’s tough to know whether, in one’s 40s, it’s a smart move to go back to grad school and get a master’s degree. The expense, the time lost, etc. – and of course the older you are, the less long-term benefit you’ll reap even if you can slide right into a job. A friend of mine, about 4 years younger, was bouncing around for years, then went to an NYU master’s program, now making 6 figures at JPL. Bam, just like that.

Anyhoo, it’s rough. I don’t know if this is common but I have this perception that by my 40s I should be essentially ‘finished’ as a person, at least professionally, but I feel like I’m just a rank beginner for the third time. And there’s a lot of projection, as in, ‘nobody will hire someone my age for anything less than a senior position I’m already qualified for, so why bother’? It’s just psychic goo you have to work through.

Please don’t take offense at this, but your situation is what terrifies me. I feel like I can’t keep going with my job. I don’t have any other job lined up or that I even feel like I can do. The obvious answer is a sabbatical or taking some time. But then I read things like what you wrote.

All of my friends have this somewhat nonchalant “don’t worry, you’re a smart guy, you could find another decent job easily enough.”

I, on the other hand, feel like they’re living on Mars. All I see on the internet are stories like yours. Obviously smart, articulate people with educations who cannot in fact find decent jobs.

And it freaks me out.

None taken. Terror is the new normal for me. Oddly blended with the joy of a new baby. Plus Trump. Been a weird year.

Slyfrog - any chance you can move to a red state and run for office as an alternative to psychos? If not, I’d encourage you to look if there’s any candidates that leave you disappointed and maybe run for their seat. We need good people with ethics, compassion, and morals in our government offices.

That is incredibly kind of you. I do not think I would be suited to any type of office, however, and at this point, I do not think I would have the background and makeup to make a viable candidate even if I were so suited. :)

We are the same age but whereas your kids are of college age, mine won’t be going to college until 2035 when I am 60 and college will be around $3.8 million a semester, so I can retire about the time we are colonizing Europa in 2045.

Feel any better? Just kidding man, but I hope you find some peace and hope.

Look at the idiot running our country. You are a million times more qualified than him and most of the people in office. And that is not hyperbole either.

Have you thought about becoming:

A government lawyer with some very different specialty…Like the Geospatial Intelligence Agency on the first page of results behind that link, or an FBI Special Agent listed later on who needs lawyerly expertise.
An insurance company investigator
A public defender
A teacher (HS or community college)

The transition to any of those might just be the shock to your system you need.

I have actually considered government lawyer, in-house, or teacher. The issue is, I’m not sure I’m in a state where I could do any of them right now. In particular, with respect to anything legal, I do not know that changing the job type will allow me to do what I fundamentally have become unable to do - practice law - regardless of the venue.

And with disability, there is a very real drawback to just trying something and discovering, “Oh yeah, I actually still can’t do this without breaking down.”

It’s one of the big Catch-22s. If you try something and find you can do it, great. If you try something and find you can’t do it, you’ve pretty much completely fucked yourself financially. But at the same time, the longer you are out of the job market, the more fucked you are if you ever need to go back into the job market.

But do you feel you can go on with things as they are?

I probably wasn’t clear. I am, for the time being, getting disability compensation (not government, but through a private carrier - and I paid for the coverage out of my own pocket). The problem is having no idea when it will end. (There are legal standards for when they can terminate, but the reality is the interpretation of them is in the hands of third parties, and obviously carriers do not like paying out compensation, particularly when it is pretty sizeable each month.)

If I try to make a change, I lose that very healthy compensation. I suppose I could live with that if I make the change and it works (i.e. I can actually do and handle a new position, enjoy it, etc.). But if I flame out or the depression/anxiety leads to failure in the new position, I will have literally cut off my own financial support.

At the same time, they could cut off the financial support for disability at any time. Could be now, could be 10 years from now. Yes, I have some theoretical ability to fight it, but that is a costly exercise in its own right, and honestly the carriers really seem to have things in their favor from a legal perspective.

So to me, it feels like it leaves things very up in the air. If the compensation continues, I’ll be fine. But if the compensation is terminated, well, that won’t be good. And, of course, part of the dilemma is the longer you are out of the job market, the harder it would be to ever get back in (both because of advancing age and a resume gap) if you are cut off down the road.

It’s a little bit like an odd function curve. If I get the compensation for a long enough period of time, I’ll be fine, as I already have a fair bit saved, and this could top off my retirement. If I went and tried to do something else today, I might have a chance of actually finding a job, as I have not been out of the market for that long, but I do not know that I can reasonably work (I genuinely feel miserable - I wish this were made up, but it isn’t). The biggest risk is this middle scenario, where I have not been receiving compensation long enough to have reached an age where I can feasibly retire on what I have, but where I have been out of the job market long enough to not be able to get another job if they cut off compensation.

Not sure if that makes sense, but it’s my best explanation while currently sleep deprived from being awake thinking about this all night.

I didn’t mean materially. I meant, How long can you endure your current emotional state?

If you can’t afford to roll the dice on some kind of change, you won’t make a change. Is that inherently a losing proposition? Will your morale slowly erode until you are far more disabled than at present and really CAN’T roll the dice?