Chelsea Manning sentence commuted

[Timex]

@Clay

How do you feel about Bowe Bergdahl?

I must admit I’ve not read up on all of the findings of his trial, but my thoughts at the time of his being released to the US was that until it was established through a court that he had abandoned his post, it was our duty to bring him home, so I agreed with the decision to make a prisoner exchange. I was unwilling to accept the notion that we’d abandon one of our soldiers on the basis that he MAY have abandoned his post.

@wumpus

You sign up for that when you become a soldier. If the possibility of death is a problem, then you are not much of a soldier.

Yes, they’re willing to do what most wouldn’t, and I respect them for that.

@wumpus

Furthermore, if the military didn’t engage in abuses, or was more honest with the public, then leaks wouldn’t be necessary in the first place. That blame belongs squarely on the shoulders of the generals making those questionable calls — not Manning.

Ok, so there are a few things to address in this. I’ve covered some of it back when this case originally took place, hell maybe stuff in this very thread… it was like 5 months ago since anyone posted in it. But let me try to point out a few things.

First, there is the notion of “the military” engaging in abuses. This certainly happens. And we have whistleblowing protections for legitimate whistleblowers. In some cases, someone might take illegal actions due to trying to expose some thing, but if they were to do so they should live with the consequences. But in such a case, I could possibly respect their actions. Someone like Snowden, for instance… while I did not really agree with how he acted, he seemed to have legitimate complaints about what was happening. He was trying to accomplish some specific thing. (we don’t need to get into everything wrong with what he did here)

But this is not what Manning did. Manning was not a whistleblower, by any stretch of the imagination.

Manning was not trying to expose any particular abuse. Manning did not release any specific information about a crime being committed.

Instead, Manning released a mountain of classified data, which she did not even know the contents of.

To me, that is a profoundly irresponsible act.

It’s irresponsible because while overclassification is a thing, classification is also legitimate in many cases. There are times when information being leaked can harm our soldiers. Not merely the abstract “military” that you are railing against, but actual men in the field. Hell, in some cases, we’re talking about guys who are little more than kids still. Releasing information which could put those men in danger, with no greater goal other than personal glory and a vague notion of harming the organization you’ve taken an oath to, is not an admirable act to me. It is contemptible.

Finally, the notion that anyone other than Manning is responsible for Mannings actions is pure absurdity. No. Manning chose to release a mountain of classified data, with no goal in mind beyond simply feeling some ridiculous sense of celebrity. Manning gave no thought at all to the men in the field who her actions might endanger. And her actions were her own.

Manning is not a good person, and not someone who should be honored in any way.

[wumpus]

@Timex

Manning chose to release a mountain of classified data, with no goal in mind beyond simply feeling some ridiculous sense of celebrity

This is wildly inconsistent with what I have read on the matter.

[Timex]

It’s absolutely true. Manning had no idea what was in the information she released. There was no specific wrongdoing she was trying to expose.

[magnet]

She did have some idea. Her chat logs described some of the content:

uhm… crazy, almost criminal political backdealings… the non-PR-versions of world events and crises… uhm… all kinds of stuff like everything from the buildup to the Iraq War during Powell, to what the actual content of “aid packages” is: for instance, PR that the US is sending aid to pakistan includes funding for water/food/clothing… that much is true, it includes that, but the other 85% of it is for F-16 fighters and munitions to aid in the Afghanistan effort, so the US can call in Pakistanis to do aerial bombing instead of americans potentially killing civilians and creating a PR crisis

theres so much… it affects everybody on earth… everywhere there’s a US post… there’s a diplomatic scandal that will be revealed… Iceland, the Vatican, Spain, Brazil, Madascar, if its a country, and its recognized by the US as a country, its got dirt on it

Also, she described what she had found to Wikileaks:

Items of historical significance of two wars Iraq and Afghanistan Significant Activity, Sigacts, between 00001 January 2004 and 2359 31 Dec 2009 extracts from CSV documents from Department of Defense and CDNE database. These items have already been sanitized of any source identity information.

You might need to sit on this information for 90 to 180 days to best send and distribute such a large amount of data to a large audience and protect the source.

This is one of the most significant documents of our time removing the fog of war and revealing the true nature of 21st century asymmetric warfare.

[Alstein]

I feel he got off light and should have received life- given that folks had their lives ruined due to his desertion. I’ve read about his victims. I believe he knew what he was doing when he went AWOL. I’m with Timex on this one (probably one of the few times we’re completely agreeing on anything outside of being anti-orange goblin)

I have more sympathy for Chelsea Manning because I think she was suffering, and I think she genuinely believed she was doing the right thing, though the original sentence made sense given the danger she put people I was serving with in. She betrayed her oath, and that carries a price- even if your intentions were not dishonorable.

The only difference is that I don’t think Chelsea’s actions made her a bad person, but one who deserved to be punished severely, which she was.

[Timex]

@magnet

She did have some idea. Her chat logs described some of the content:

No, she knew some things. She had no idea what the entirety of what she released contained. It’s impossible for her to have known what was in there, given the sheer quantity of data she was releasing.

If she had released only things that she thought were bad, her actions would be less reprehensible. But no, she released 750,000 documents. She hadn’t even viewed 0.01% percent of it.

She had no idea what she was releasing.

And she released this to an organization which we now know is effectively an arm of the FSB.

[Miramon]

@Timex

And she released this to an organization which we now know is effectively an arm of the FSB.

Heh. At the time wikileaks were very well regarded as being trustworthy and discreet. But of course the FSB now has more direct access to classified material than they could get from a thousand Chelsea Mannings.

[Telefrog]

Turns out Manning is a crazy or easily duped idiot, going by her recent activity.

Running for Congress. Hanging out with alt-right folks. Whatever.

[Timex]

At no point, ever, has Manning even demonstrated that she was anything other than a total idiot.

Seriously, I defy anyone to find a single case of her acting like an intelligent person. Ever.

[YakAttack]

@barstein

The report also determined that a different set of documents published the same year, relating to the US war in Afghanistan, would not result in “significant impact” to US operations. It did, however, have the potential to cause “serious damage” to “intelligence sources, informants and the Afghan population,” and US and NATO intelligence collection efforts. The most significant impact of the leaks, the report concluded, would likely be on the lives of “cooperative Afghans, Iraqis, and other foreign interlocutors.”

People Trump wants not to enter the country, so they’re doubly screwed.

[triggercut]

She’s running for Senate in Maryland, right? As a Democrat, taking on Ben Cardin in the Primary?

And hanging out with Cernovich and his alt-right posse?

Good luck with that.

[YakAttack]

Maybe she is gathering intel on her opponents under cover?

[Telefrog]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/chelsea-manning-sent-to-jail-for-refusing-to-testify-in-wikileaks-case/2019/03/08/ecb9eda8-41b4-11e9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html

Former Army intelligence analyst Chelsea Manning will be held in jail until she testifies before a grand jury or that grand jury is no longer operating, a federal judge in Alexandria ruled Friday.

Manning was called to testify in an investigation into WikiLeaks, the anti-secrecy website she shared classified documents with back in 2010. Manning served seven years of a 35 year prison sentence for her leak before receiving a commutation from President Barack Obama.