Why would hybrids/electrics be popular at all when they get 50 mpg from their diesel cars? Oh and cars are much cheaper, smaller, lighter there as well. Additionally the public transit infrastructure is completely different because of the way cities are laid out.
I cannot imagine expensive hybrids/electrics will do well. But then I lived in England for only 2009, so I have a limited data set.
Mostly a miss, for reasons others have already mentioned. Heck you could probably swing 3 hyndai econo-sedans for the $41k price.
My driving needs are currently such that the Volt would probably work out great for me. However, I already don’t spend much in gas for my small truck and I could go buy two to three small hybrid/flex/efficient gas models for less.
Its a neat concept that isn’t ready for primetime. 40miles isn’t much even around town, factor in environmental conditions affecting battery performance and I’m betting you’re hitting that premium octane filled gas tank more than you’d want. Along with how much it might cost you to charge it every night/keep it charged to be ready to go when you need it.
I live in very urban West Midlands. In England. I ride a Vectrix electric scooter to work and back. I’ve seen at least one other Vectrix on the roads.
My dealer went bankrupt.
Living in Atlanta I don’t see much of a reason why I’d need to drive more than 40 miles on any usual day. I’m paying about 8 cents a kw/H and the Volt only needs 8-9 kw/H to recharge each night, so my daily cost would be in the neighborhood of $0.60 to $0.70 in electricity.
It’s still a 50 mpg car when running in gas engine mode.
However, the pricing is the bigger concern. Let’s say I’m driving 40 miles a day - in the Volt this saves me about a gallon of gasoline because of the charge - a cost savings of around $2.50 a day over similar operation in a Prius. Being generous I’ll say the Volt might save me $1,000 a year in gasoline costs compared to a Prius. However, the Prius is already $10k cheaper than the Volt, and that’s an upfront $10k - not just slow savings over a long period of time. It would take a decade of Volt use just to catch up to the Prius. Even if gas went back up to $4+ a gallon we’d still be looking at 5+ years to make up the difference in price. Unless the Volt proves to retain an unusually strong resale value, this car really needed to be $5k cheaper than it is.
Looks like GM is going toincrease production to 15,000 vehicles in the first year.
I do wish the gas engine in the Volt was diesel. It drives me nuts that diesel engines haven’t taken off in the US.
Diesel in the US is synonymous with the 18 wheeler. People just think of giant slow gas guzzling trucks when diesel is mentioned. Not to mention it costs more at the pump (however more efficient it is).
Who are these “people?” Has there actually been any sort of research about American diesel attitudes or is it mostly assumptions? How about they make the product and shove it down people’s throats because it’s actually better?
No one who actually thinks diesel is dirty and loud won’t be convinced by a test drive, and frankly I don’t believe there’s enough people ignorant of the issue to hold up production.
I think people are vastly overestimating people’s awareness of diesel. If you market it right the few idiots who still think diesel sucks won’t matter.
No one who knows they’re low-class white trash dependent on government programs would vote for Republicans who vote for tax cuts for the rich and program cuts for the poor.
Wait.
We’re Americans.
Not before he sold you some kind bud apparently. What’s up with those awkwardly short sentences, huh?
If diesel engines and diesel fuel hit the market now as new products they would be hailed as revolutionary saviors of the earth. Lower emissions, higher mileage, performance characteristics that are perfect for stop-and-go city traffic, engines that routinely go the distance between here and the moon before needing an overhaul, the ability to make fuel out of all kinds of crap. The list goes on.
Unfortunately, they were invented a long time ago.
American culture was also completely burned on diesels by the pathetic efforts of the Big Three in the late 70s and early 80s, when they simply converted basic gas engines into diesels. This resulted in leaky, unreliably, smokey, and above all loud diesel engines.
I was thinking about this a bit more.
The battery is good for a max of 40 miles (more or less).
Realistically, folks will only use the battery once per day (charge overnight, use for the first 40 miles of driving the next day).
The competition for this kind of car is a hybrid or similar car, getting 40-50 mpg.
So the battery saves you a max of ~0.8 - 1.0 gallons, compared to a hybrid or other high efficiency car.
Let’s say you can fully utilize that savings 6 days per week (long commute, plus some weekend driving.
That means you’re saving about (0.8-1.0) * 6 * 52 = 250 - 312 gallons of gas per year.
As long as gas is in the $2.75 ish range, that’s about $688 - $858 / year. But you do have to pay something for the electricity that charges the battery, reducing those savings somewhat. And this is under near ideal usage (lots of daily mileage).
For those who make the decision purely on economics (rather than novelty, green-appeal, or whatnot), and who set a payback time of 6-10 years or so, then this kind of Volt technology should probably command a premium in the $4-8K range (ish) relative to a good hybrid.
I haven’t done an apples-to-apples comparison against a similar hybrid, but I doubt the Volt will be in that sweet spot, price-wise, initially. Still, the novelty will carry it. The key question is if GM can get the price down and still earn a reasonable profit on it. I’m guessing they can, but that’s a rather wild, uninformed guess.
These hybrids make me wonder if it’s easier to be a mechanic now because of all the electronic crap modern cars are festooned with, or harder to be a mechanic now because of all the electronic crap modern cars are festooned with.
Harder.
I think the 2010 Prius with it’s 50 mpg can be considered a similar hybrid. It’s roughly 10k cheaper than a Volt, so it unfortunately would take a Volt owner over 10 years to make up the difference in gas savings assuming gas remains at or around $3. Leasewise, it’s $3k down but only $179 a month for 3 years, so it’s roughly $1,400 a year cheaper to lease than a Volt as well.
I’ve been a Volt fanboy for years, but the pricing really makes this car impossible to justify based on economics. A price of something like $37,500 ($30k after tax credit) would have made a huge difference here in how it stacked up to the competition.
Yep, in Europe diesels>>hybrids. Simpler, better, cheaper. It is now pretty rare to see new petrol engined luxury cars (Merc S class, 7 Series BMW etc.)
Hired a Golf TDi last week in UK. Cruises at 2k RPM at 75 MPH, shoves you back in the seat when you hit the oil pedal.
I’m still very interested in a test drive. The way the car feels, handles, and accelerates still is an unknown quantity. My experiences with the Prius have been that while it can get you around just fine, it doesn’t have much “get up and go”.
It’s also harder being a first responder because these cars have so many electrical systems and cables in them now that manufacturers have to designate areas of the frame that are safe to cut into without being electrocuted. But not all cars have them, so…
That’s not how I read that article. They are talking about increasing the 2012 model year (i.e. the national rollout) from 30K to 45K :
Instead of the projected 30,000 to 40,000 Volts in production by 2012, Whitacre is now pushing for 45,000. The Detroit-Hamtramck site is one of the facilities where the Volt will be built.
I haven’t seen anything about increasing the initial production run.
That’s odd, they changed the text of the article. It originally mentioned the 10K initial run and it increasing to 15K.
I can’t find any other sites that can support that either, so they must’ve got the story wrong initially.