China to outlaw selective abortions

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050107.wchina-abort0107/BNStory/International/

China is planning to make selective abortions of female fetuses illegal as a way to close the widening gap between the number of boys and girls in the country, Xinhua News Agency said.

“The government takes it as an urgent task to correct the gender imbalance of newborns,” Zhang Weiqing, minister of National Population and Family Planning Commission, was quoted saying Thursday by Xinhua.

Putting aside for the moment that China isn’t exactly a bastion of civil rights anyway, I’m curious what everyone here thinks about this. I view it as a question of whether a government has the right to curtail civil rights on this large a scale in order to correct a problem as large as this one. I’m honestly not sure whether I think it’s justified or not.

China is on a trajectory that is vastly different than our own.

Something is on the march there too, but it isn’t called freedom.

When China already aborts every kid beyond the 2nd, I’m not sure this makes much difference. It’s good that I don’t have to think about it for the US, because it makes my head hurt…

Edit: scratch that. This is just a special case of “abortions virtually everyone wants to outlaw, but there’s no way to really tell so you can’t do it.” China’s going to have as impossible a time enforcing this as the US would enforcing “you can’t use abortion as birth control.” They should actually solve the root of the strong preference for boys (yes, I know that’s an underpants gnomes statement), not waste their time on this crap.

Well yeah, but I’m more interested in just this specific action. For instance, if the US had all of its current laws, but had the same gender disparity and overpopulation problem that China has, would this be an ok thing to do?

Well, what if the US was a oligarchical dictatorship? I don’t see how you’d transplant it; for example, the two-child limit is widely opposed in China, but the preference for boys is widely supported. And they want boys because having girls in China impoverishes you, so they’re not just being evil…

Yes, I know I didn’t call China “communist” because they’re about as communist now as General Franco.

It’s easy to transplant it in the context of a hypothetical. Just watch me: pretend that, for whatever reason, the US had the same gender disparity that China now has. What would you think of this then?

I’d want to fix the gender disparity, and while this law sounds just as much a good idea as “you can’t use abortion as birth control,” it’d be impossible to enforce.

I don’t think so… I mean, you obviously aren’t going to be able to stop people from getting the kinds of dangerous backroom abortions that were common when abortion was illegal in the US, but it would effectively stop regular abortions from being performed on female fetuses. Though the argument could be made, and is probably correct, that this would only lead to more unsafe abortions.

Regardless, I got your answer to the question I wanted answered, and I quoted it, so it’s too late to take it back!

More asian girls? Sold.

Actually, China is seriously considering a policy change to two children per couple. There are rural areas already which allow this, and some urban residents are getting rich enough to afford the fines that are imposed when they have a second child or else go overseas to have children and have them on a non-Chinese passport.

I don’t think so… I mean, you obviously aren’t going to be able to stop people from getting the kinds of dangerous backroom abortions that were common when abortion was illegal in the US, but it would effectively stop regular abortions from being performed on female fetuses. Though the argument could be made, and is probably correct, that this would only lead to more unsafe abortions.

Regardless, I got your answer to the question I wanted answered, and I quoted it, so it’s too late to take it back![/quote]

But how are they enforcing it, by an outright ban on abortion of female fetuses? I guess that would work, yeah, but I thought it was something like trying to determine intent.

It’d be really cool if China would stop doing the 2 kid thing, that’s an appalling policy.

I’m not sure what the big deal with this news item is; since when has it been legal to abort a child in the US just because it is female? I’d consider myself to be pro-choice, but allowing people to terminate pregnancies simply on the basis that the fetus is female just seems wrong.

That’s a bit of a conundrum for NARAL, NOW, etc. Bottom line is: pro-choice means pro-choice. I’m amused by the selective emotionally based relative morality that pops up when this issue rears its head. Certainly the couples involved are doing the rational thing for them by selecting for a male offspring.

China has to combat a dual problem of gender ratio imbalance and a rapidly aging population over the next 30 years. The one-child policy kept population growth in check, but they will have to relax that over time to avoid a crunch.

Affirmative action and sex-offender registration laws seem to be two areas here in the US that someone could probably make a similar argument for or against. The recent thread about drunk-driving roadside checkpoints would be another.

China would do better to spend time un-ingraining the notion that females are inferior. This whole idea came from thousands of years of culture but they could probably get rid of it in two generations or so. Hell the Commies did make infanticide illegal only about 50 years ago, so they’re trying to move in the right direction.

It seems they’re trying to do so with some economic bribery:

Xinhua said China has also in recent years helped fight discrimination against girls by launching a national program to exempt them from paying school fees.

“Families with just one daughter enjoy housing, employment, education and welfare privileges,” Xinhua said.

It’d be really cool if China would stop doing the 2 kid thing, that’s an appalling policy.

Our world can only support so many people. It’s a harsh truth that we’re going to eat ourselves out of resources eventually. Anything we can do to halt this is a good thing, even if it means aborting a lot of fetuses. Or, if things went my way, involuntary sterilizations after the second child and a large tax break for those who voluntarily sterilize without children.

“Holy shit! That’s it!

That’s a bit of a conundrum for NARAL, NOW, etc. Bottom line is: pro-choice means pro-choice. I’m amused by the selective emotionally based relative morality that pops up when this issue rears its head. Certainly the couples involved are doing the rational thing for them by selecting for a male offspring.[/quote]

You have a rational, non-emotional, means of determining when or if an abortion should be allowed? I’m still searching for one, as most of it seems to be based on gut feeling, arbitary delineations or theistic beliefs. Personally I don’t like abortions, but I recognise that they are a necessary evil. I see a fetus as some kind of life, although not fully human. I will always put the life of the mother before that of the fetus, like the two occasions my sister had to have abortions, which she totally did not want and emotionally tore her apart. That’s about as rational as I can get it.

Wow. Add a period to a qualified statement and post a hitler graphic. lollerskates HILARIOUS.