I suppose I am. The alternative is to think that this lady was utterly helpless and incapable of taking actions in her best interest, as I sarcastically alluded to in the previous post (a joke assist for the humorless). That would qualify her to be not much more than a ward of the state. And to generalize this to women at large is to negate the fundamental rationale for feminism. That can’t be your position.
That isn’t the only alternative. People who are serially abused, mentally or physically are always “free to go” but often won’t because of the ramifications of them leaving would be “terrible”. Where a spouse who has suffered physical abuse may be afraid to leave because she could be killed, or a mentally abused person may be afraid to leave because she might be blacklisted by her ex or fired from their job.
This isn’t black/white like you are making it out to be.
This is the whole point of abuse of power/sexual harrasment. That men think they can get away with this because they know the woman would be afraid to leave. They are using their power (in this case, he was her boss) to hold people in check.
This ^ breaking down has been the good part of the #metoo movement. It feels like the stigma is weakening a bit, and people like Chloe can tell their stories so other women in situations like her can feel like they can escape.
And in fact, that seems to be exactly the reason that Dykstra wrote that piece: so that people trapped in a bad relationship can evaluate their situation more objectively, instead of just coasting through on the hope that things will get better.
He wasn’t her boss until they started dating, and even then it was wasn’t right away. This is a case study, to me, as to why you should earn your position rather than sleep with someone and have them invent a job for you. As soon as that relationship dries up, so does the job.
I agree, this whole thing is bad actors on both sides, and an antithesis to feminism, except the kind of “babe.net” feminism that says it’s ok to be a cam girl or sleep with men for favors and money. It’s detrimental to the whole movement (from an outsiders perspective). Because or the blackball accusations though, I agree it’s on the #metoo spectrum. This one definitely has two sides, though, an accusation and an outright surprised reaction and denial. It’s hard to believe both sides.
From the article, she had already gotten work in her chosen field, and even then she resisted the idea of working directly for Hardwick.
I was quickly pressured to take an on-camera job at his company I didn’t want (I do not like to work for my significant others), because he insinuated I would be ungrateful to not accept it. Scared to upset him, I accepted the job, but I refused payment for my work, feeling uncomfortable about the whole thing (though the lovely folks at his company eventually forced me to take a check).
And the issue isn’t that particular job drying up after they broke up; it’s the claims that Hardwick called other companies she worked with and threatened to stop working with them if they hired her.
Yeah, that’s true, that is the issue. Sounds like he felt the need to burn his ex. Very petty.
Some of these responses remind me of that reddit thread where a silicon valley start-up CEO said he would never hire a woman because it would ruin the company’s atmosphere.
And saw nothing wrong with that statement.
And then an employment lawyer entered the thread and asked “what company do you run?, for future reference”
That was the original point. We don’t know the actual natures and experiences of the people involved, but there seem to be a lot of advocates for uncritical acceptance of the original claim due to their own stereotypes of people, or their perceptions of male/female dynamics, or something else entirely. It’s cheap & easy to pick a side and feel like you have “done something,” but these appear to be two very flawed people who had a dysfunctional relationship (and for all I know, were attracted to each other because of their dysfunctional natures.
I know that I don’t know. Everything we are doing is guessing, and we won’t really experience any consequences as a result of this matter. But Hardwick (a guy I was never really a fan of, I bought his comedy album on sale and couldn’t be bothered to finish it, that’s the extent of my knowledge) has been erased. That has to be a frightening prospect for anyone who can visualize themselves in that situation.
Some will applaud the purported inversion of the “power dynamic,” but unintended consequences abound when we abandon fundamental principles like due process or the presumption against guilt (it’s by analogy here, this is a social consequence, not a legal one). I’m already seeing stories that it’s becoming very difficult to find men willing to mentor female subordinates because of the high risks and low benefits of the situation.
Yeah, that was a dick move. Move on and don’t be petty is good advice for exes.
And hopefully those people see the error of their ways, too, because it’s bullshit. Perhaps this is the next stage of the movement?
Women are just people- treat them like you would any other dude. You were mentored into where you are, it’s your obligation to pay that forward, no matter who is under your command. If you can’t handle that, don’t go into a position of authority. End of story. If you don’t act like a pig around/towards them, they’ll have no reason to bring this sort of thing against you. None. Learn some introspection, evaluate the things you do and say. Ask yourself “is this appropriate in a work environment, whether with a male or female co-worker”, and act accordingly.
I work in a super-macho industry- professional kitchens. It’s got a stupid locker-room-sensibility, but it’s getting better. I’ve had to discipline/fire people for treating their female co-workers badly. I’ve learned that one of my first questions when hiring people into positions of management (whether promoting from within or hiring from outside) is ‘how do you feel about mentoring women underneath you?’. If they balk at all, they’re done, not moving forward. If it ends up they’re lying, it comes out on their performance review. This shit has to change. If you have to say “my career dead-ended because I don’t trust women”, that’s on you, not the women.
For everyone upthread with their anecdotal evidence about how men and women just can’t be friends, that’s stupid and sexist and hurts everyone involved. Two of my best friends are my ex-girlfriend (9 years) and my best friend’s wife. The former and I still get together an the time to hang out, and there’s no tension there because we’re both adults and have moved on. We’re going to see Ocean’s 8 tonight because her boyfriend is occupied. The latter, I’m her go-to friend to call when she wants to go out dancing- and hell, they’re even in an open/poly relationship, and there still isn’t anything there, because you know what? That’s not the sort of relationship we have. If you can’t have non-sexual emotional attachments with women, I honestly feel sorry for you. And I can say all this after my marriage broke up after my ex-wife cheated on me with a co-worker. Notice I didn’t say that was the cause (though it certainly was a catalyst)- it was merely a symptom. Bah.
You mean the position you made up from whole cloth and then attributed to me? Yeah, that’s not my position. And then like 5 posts after this garbage you completely drop this argument and pretend you’re doing some kind of PSA about believing things you hear from third parties. So you just wasted everyone’s time with the “every person can always make the perfect decision that an omniscient third party would make, therefore unless they are being held in bondage you can’t judge them”. You’re essentially saying that was not your point to begin with, so I guess you were just trolling.
Once again you show that you aren’t interested in actual discussion, just… I don’t know. Something else.
Jeez, @Don_Quixote, you’ve got some interesting amd complicated relationships there based on your personal experiences with sexual desire, love, trust and partners. It’s your life, you can live it how you want! It’s easy to see how you’re a watching this show dog because it has papers and not that you still pine for your ex. That’s great if it works for you.
Perhaps though, you shouldn’t take your “open relationship” (weird to a lot of people, by the way, but like I said it’s your life, no judgement) relationship with whoever’s wife and apply it with such broad strokes. “Everyone should be like me!” is not the best tactic to use to a variety of those of us not in asexual polytrust could-be-sexual-just-so-you-know-but-I’m-an-adult relationships or whatever it is that floats your boat.
I don’t believe he has an open relationship. I believe his ex and her boyfriend do. He’s just friends with his ex.
I am not sure why you appreciate the personal experience of one person and then completely dismiss the other. So which is it? You taking them all into consideration or… none?
This is the thing that’s so confusing about this type of story. This isn’t someone grabbing your genitals at a party (like happened to Terry Crews), this is a private, consenual, long term relationship made public. I don’t presume to judge all the weirdos out there because I’m a weirdo myself. But let’s not pretend that “not wanting my spouse to go get drunk with their ex” is a weird, unheard of thing or irrationally controlling. That’s an outlier premise.
I think you misunderstand what abusive relationships can look like if you think the only way to have one is if someone is held down or locked in a room.
Trying to figure out what that unstated position is, thus phrasing it as a question. Are legal adults responsible for their choices, or not? If so, how can you have accountability on anyone’s part?
Wasn’t addressing you in that post, that’s the likely source of the lack of continuity you complain of
If someone robs me, you wouldn’t say to me, “you could have just walked away.” But if someone abuses someone domestically, your argument for the victim seems to be exactly that. I posted a link to why people don’t “just leave” in these relationships because what you said is incredibly stupid to anyone who follows domestic abuse. I even just linked a big name domestic abuse org to make it easy, instead of some blog or something you’d (maybe rightly) ignore.
I thought we were discussing open relationships. The topic seems to be shifting all over the place. Perhaps I was distracted.
Yes, I recognize there are many abusive relationships. Did these conditions the antagonist of Dykstra’s story put on her for being in the relationship seem like abuse to you? The not wanting pictures taken, the comments about past relationships being sexless and leading to its demise, the not drinking… Those came off as controlling to me, not abusive. But to discuss the healthiness of their sex life is a conversation we can’t have, as we weren’t there. She never mentions anything about assault or aggressiveness. I don’t really care to delve into that, either, that’s private sex life stuff.
And for that, one person chose to ruin another person’s career. I’m not crazy bothered by that but it’s disconcerting to me it happened.
An FYI for a lot of people here, domestic abuse is nearly 100% about control. Controlling boyfriend/girlfriend is almost always just rationalization by someone (often the victim) for abuse.