Civ IV and GalCiv 2

I’ve been a big fan of the game since I first downloaded it early this year, but the damn thing has enough weird little wrinkles that I just couldn’t figure out that I ended up putting it down for five months. But something brought me back, too. There’s something compelling about the world they’ve created that may be the systems they use, the way the gameplay flows, or maybe it’s just the romance and excitement of Space Colonization and Empire Building! Whatever it is, I came back, and now thanks to this thread I’m really happy I did! It’s really damn sunny here in the East Bay and I may have a date tonight, but I’d be totally fine with going back home and falling into Galactic Conquest Mode for five straight hours…I’d say that’s the mark of a compelling game.

It’s getting better, but man, it’s hard to get into.

Wow! Thanks to all your help on here, I’ve been able to get to a VERY satisfactory mid-game position on a Large map with 9 other civs! The Drengin just declared war on me after a splash screen told me that a disgruntled farmer killed one of their diplomats (but didn’t give me the option to punish the farmer! rats!), so now I’m using my (gasp!) very first waypoint as a staging area before I assault their planets. Their war is a good pretext to wipe them out.

But DANG does it take a while to build a fleet! My planets are spread far and wide, so getting guys to the front takes a while. My economy has also been focused on research, so tooling up for war takes a while, what with building new Starports and developing new ship designs. I’ve also got to research Planetary Invasion and get a few troop transports to the front, as well as some swarms of smaller ships to peck away at the defence. Which leads me to my questions.

Question 10: I’ve been using the Paths to Victory guide as a shipbuilding resource, and it’s great, but it doesn’t have any recomendations for specific fleet makeups. I’ve got several Small attackers at the front, and a couple Medium sized badass attack craft, and I want to add a bunch of little guys as support, but do y’all have any particular suggestions or guidelines for building even small fleets?

Question 11: Without using really unpleasant methods like Planetary Disruption or whatever, do other races look down on exterminating a race? The Drengin have three planets, and I’m looking to take them OUT. No one has alliances with them, and they’re not trading much. Other than the usual affiliations based on diplomacy, alignment, and the like, are there any factors to worry about when thinking of wiping out a race?

  1. One of the biggest bitches about someone else declaring war on you early is that you have to scramble for Planetary Invasion and an attack fleet. I like to skimp on engines when it comes to defense, so I often don’t have a strike force ready to go when somebody jumps me. On the bright side, a strong defense CAN deter attack, even if it’s not necessarily suitable for fighting the whole war.

SHIPBUILDING: Four things should dictate your fleet composition and ship production:

I. Production. This is the most important one. Not every world is going to be viable at all as a shipyard. Those that are will vary in output. Powerhouse worlds with precursor factories and shit are more suited to more costly ships, and less productive planets – or ones focused elsewhere – are more able to produce smaller, cheaper craft. This is obvious, I know, but what’s not obvious is making this the first thing you consider. Don’t come up with a magic mix of hull sizes and then try to bend your production to fit unless you have money to burn on ship purchases. There is no hard and fast “small ships or large ships” answer. Produce according to your capabilities.

II. Logistics. Your fleet composition will have to accomodate your logistics limits. Self-explanatory, and often a good reason to avoid going with larger hulls exclusively. If your logistics can support fleets with 1.9 of your biggest ships in them, making only those will seriously hurt you.

III. Technology. You generally want to go with the best stuff, but there will be times to cheap it out. Some things are more vital to research or include than others. Often your defensive fleets can skip engines and support. There are certain ship technologies that are alignment-exlcusive, the most important of these being the Evil weapons. These technologies are very powerful, but also very costly in terms of implementation, so choose wisely. I don’t like to put Psionic Beams on cheap, fragile hulls – for their cost, I want to be able to retreat and repair so I don’t lose my investment. Don’t worry as much about defenses on smaller ships, since they’re more replaceable than survivable.

IV. Your Opponent’s Ships. There is a moderately strong rock-paper-scissors dynamic between the weapons and the defenses. Shields are optimal against beams, armor is optimal against projectiles, and jamming is optimal against missiles. A defense defending against a non-applicable weapon will apply only the square root of its rating against an attack. (This means that the early defenses, with values of 1, are equally good against everything!) Basically, to respond to your opponent’s capabilities, you ideally have defenses over 1 against his primary weapons and are mostly using weapons against which he has no defense. In the early game, these things probably don’t matter very much, since defenses are not very advanced and all similarly effective.

  1. The Drengin generally have few friends, because they are dicks. I’m not sure other races recognize what invasion techniques you use, even Core Cracking. Depending on the circumstances, some civs may feel threatened by your aggression; others may be impressed by your strength. They started the war, not you, which will help your diplomatic position. The worst diplomatic backlash I ever see is triggered by a civ (often the Torians, the Drengin, or me) invading multiple minors in rapid succession. I think it’s because they’re declaring a war AND wiping out a race, once each per planet.

If you leave a race helpless before you without conquering them right away, they may surrender, probably to somebody else. Then you lose planets you could otherwise have conquered, and often they go to the absolute worst civ possible. (Who the fuck surrenders to the Yor?) With the Drengin only having three planets, it sounds feasible to strip and invade all of them in a very short time frame, possibly a single turn.

I think it’s safe to assume the diplomat assassination was conveniently arranged by the Drengin :)

Races tend to focus on particular weapon (Laser/Missile/Mass Driver) and armor (Shields/Armor/ECM) techs and neglect others. Find out what they are either prior to war by checking out their techs on the discussion screen, or by looking at their ships. Drengin, for instance, seem to really like Mass Drivers, so get as advanced as you can in Armor. If you haven’t done the appropriate research, trade for it. Then, design and build ships that play to those specific strengths and weaknesses and you will punch FAR above your weight.

Given that they declared war on you, I think you are unlikely to suffer diplomatically if you conquer them. Not sure whether or not you get a penalty for gassing the populace or similar. Wouldn’t surprise me if you did. Information warfare is great, if you can afford it.

Yeah, Information Warfare is my favorite, followed by Mini-Soldiers.

This is an excellent idea! I didn’t even consider this. What a great way to keep costs down. I’m thinking now that I’ll use a couple crazy good defenders that can’t really move and also a fairly quality attacker on each world, and then build up an attack force as necessary.

Well this is certainly good news, but I’m going to keep my sights a little lower. This will be my first attempt at planetary invasion in almost 30 hours of play, and it may take some getting used to. I think I’ll have two invasion boats ready to go and a small attack fleet that counters the Drengin’s focus on Mass Drivers. I read about a cool strategy on the AAR board on the official forums, which was to build a basic cargo hull with major engines, boost it to where it’s needed, then upgrade it to a troop carrier within striking distance of a planet. Sounds like a good thing to have in the back pocket in case of a sudden uprising from a neighbor or an unexpected crumpling of defences. It would be pretty terrible to lose the planet you’ve spent time wearing down to an opportunistic neighbor just because you couldn’t get an invasion force there in time.

Damn, this game is complex and great, but it’s damn hard to keep track of all the different types of ships you can make use of. Just from this thread alone I’ve described multiple ships within a single type: Two small attack craft, one with good defence and another strong on offence, a base cargo hull with engines and then the upgraded version(s) with troop transports, constructor, or colony modules as well. That’s lots of ships. How do you guys keep track of all your ship needs? Lots of clever naming and judicious use of the Obsolete button?

That was EXACTLY my first thought! I was like, “oooohhh!! those crafty Drengin!!” Rrrrrr!

Generally speaking, I love the strategy of building hyperfast troop dropships from cargo hulls. You can build them for that purpose right from the get go, usually. Depending on the layout of the galaxy and your tech level when you go to war, it’s perfectly possible to have dropships that can move from a nice safe staging area on one of your planets to somewhere deep in enemy territory AND invade in a single turn.

Judicious use of the Obsolete button is definitely key, particularly if you’re like me and can’t resist the urge to optimize your ship designs every time you unlock a new tech, but I might want to use some sort of coded designation alongside the flavor text so you can easily tell what you’re building at a glance.

For example, you might build a ‘DrenginSlayerM-B8A10-IONX2’, which would be a medium hulled attack craft with 8 beam weapon power, 10 armor and two Ion engines. You can upgrade this design as you unlock better weapons, armor and engines, or as your ability to shrink stuff improves. Then just obsolete the old design and you’re good to go.

I’d rather escort my troop ships than sprint with them. I like small drop pods – built on the smallest hulls possible. Anything is more survivable than a Cargo hull, which has only one hit point, and many things are cheaper. Enough engine power to match whatever my standard fleet speed is – early on, two native moves per turn will do it. (Getting the tech for Impulse Engines will increase all ship movement by one per turn, so by the time I’m fighting, a fairly basic engine will put my ships at three moves per turn, which is suitable for a local war.)

You’ll be replacing your troop ships a lot, and they’ll take population as soldiers. To avoid a second stop, I like to take the soldiers from the planet of manufacture, which in turn means that it’s best for me to vary the planets I build troop transports on. Therefore, the smaller hulls make for a ship that I can build almost anywhere in a reasonable amount of time. If more troops are required, I build more of them on other planets and rendezvous them with escorts and each other.

Edit: I prefer to give my designs memorable names that are both unique and brief, provide any necessary explanation in the comment field, and then make new designs based on the original as required, incrementing the number for a general upgrade or adding a letter for a specialized version.

So, for example, I’ll have my initial Small attack ships, and I’ll call the design Beetongue. Then I’ll get some better technology and make a general upgrade, the Beetongue 2. Then I’ll get into a fight with the Iconians and need to switch up my weaponry, and I’ll create a new design called the Beetongue 2i. As my manufacturing base and technological development grow, I may abandon Beetongues completely for a larger new design, or I may relegate them to other duties like escorting and low-priority planetary defense, or I may scrap them. Whatever I do, I have design categories that clearly reflect a ship’s nature and purpose. To me, anyway.

I don’t think survivability is a good reason in itself to go with smaller hulls. Basically, you can have transports with weapons or without weapons. If you have weapons they might be able to beat a much less costly force on their own, but they are severly hindered by the space requirements for the troop modules. Also, you pay maintenance only on armed ships and you lose whatever investment you made in weapons cost when you invade. The final insult is that putting weapons on your transports might even mean they get targetted before your escorts.

An unarmed transport is going to lose against an armed opponent, no matter how many hitpoints they have, but they will only be targetted once all the escorts are killed. You also aren’t making an investment in weapons that you will probably never use.

The other thing I’ve noticed is that if you have a combat fleet and an unarmed transport fleet in the same square, any attacking fleet will always have to engage the combat fleet first. So you don’t need mixed fleets, and can just keep your transports in the same square as maximum-strength escort fleets.

Oop, new question: Do you need more than one Troop Module to make an effective invasion force? Do you get bigger bonuses to your advantage with more troop modules?

You can load up more troops with more troop modules. Advanced Troop mod holds 5x the normal troop transport I think. If you take out a planet with enough troops left over (on a ship) you won’t lose that ship either.

Just beware of cost and of course if you max out the transport part, you may have left little room for a decent engine.

How many troops you need depends on how populated the world you’re invading is, and on your relative “Advantage Factor,” which is a bonus to ground combat derived from technologies, racial abilities, invasion tactics, and Wonders. When I start invading regularly, the tech bonuses are a huge help. The invasion technologies also unlock more invasion tactics.

Edit: To clarify, the Advantage Factor has nothing to do with how many troops you’ve got. It’s more a measure of tactical and technological sophistication, and how well-trained your soldiers are.

But so the more troops you bring to the field, the better chances you’ll have against a well populated planet? In my recent engagement I kept bringing the minimum 5 million into battles against 12, and I’d do well but still get beaten. Took me three invasions to prevail. Then the fucking Drengin surrender to the Iconians and give their last two planets to them! Grr!

Edit: Also, I’m having some trouble deciding whether to attack the Iconians now. They’re “Friendly” with me, but they have a bunch of real estate I want and are very, very weak. How can I set them up to become unhappy with me and push them gradually into war? I demand things from them, like starbases or planets, and they just go “Fack off!” and I cry. How do I change this and make THEM cry?

Since you took one of the Drengin planets, I guess you now have a cultural border pretty close to the new Iconian planets, right?
If so, build two or three Cultural Starbases, as close to the new Iconian planets as you can get. That way you’ll eventually get both planets, hopefully without going to war with the Iconians.

Woop, too late! Thanks for the advice, but I’m too impatient to flip the planets. I attacked the Iconians, too, and took thier capital in one turn and the closest planet to it on the next. But they too, surrendered! Now the Torians have their planets, and one turn later they offered me an insulting tribute of 23bc. I think I’m going to have to wipe out everyone.

Is there any good way to prevent a down-and-out civ from surrenduring to another civ? Wtf is this?!

As someone said earlier in this thread, ideally you should invade two or three planets in the same turn. That way you minimize the damage if the enemy surrenders to the ‘wrong’ race.

I don’t think you can outright prevent a race from surrendering.

Annoying as it may seem, I think this is a really good mechanic. It’s a way to keep the game interesting for far longer than it otherwise would be.
If you’re going for a domination victory in Civilization you can easily get into a position where there’s just mopping up left, but this mopping up can take several hours. That is no fun at all.
In GalCiv the ‘mopping-up-but-I-know-I-have-already-won’-phase is much shorter, and waging an early war and getting an early military lead doesn’t tilt the game as much as it does in Civ, imho.

What fiasco?

From galactic flop to galactic Genghis Khan in 2 pages! Gotta love it :)

FYI for those that don’t know, there’s a new expansion coming out that will have unique tech trees for the various races. A nice change, I think.

I warned you about that surrendering. It’s a good mechanic because it turns excessive divide-and-conquer into You Against the World, which is more interesting. But yeah, it can be frustrating.

There IS a Wonder that Good civs can build which makes surrenders more likely to be given to you. I love waging a war where the enemy gives up and hands over all the rest of his planets. 'Cause I’m so fucking Good. Bonus if I started it and it’s a blatant war of acquisition.