Seeing the other side as 2 dimensional comic villains is not limited to the right wingers. I’m having the same discussion here with the left that sees anyone with the gop as evil.
This is a human failing. to see a group in monolithic, and believing their own partisan narratives.
Most people see the Nazis as an evil ideology as well, is that unfair or inaccurate?
While today’s GOP isn’t advocating genocide, it’s a platform of evil of various shades whether that be plutocratic policy that seeks to deprive millions of Americans while enriching the elite or, I don’t know, LITERALLY TAKING CHILDREN AWAY FROM FAMILIES AT THE BORDER.
It’s evil. If you support all that bullshit today? Yeah. That’s pretty evil.
The distinction of a evil group is if their declared intentions are evil. Say the Nazi party or the KKK which believe the eradication of other races is a declared objective. Note however, not all soldiers of Germany were of the party, but people called them Nazis anyway. Leverage and influence and social momentum pulled good people to fight on both sides of the war. This explains those stories of Germans secretly helping the interns. So in this case, not a absolute…
The GOP has many stated objectives, but the GOP as a whole was aghast of the situation of the border, I can pull many quotes, and a reason why I think the situation changed, Trumps support was eroding.
No one in the GOP claims to deprive millions of Americans while enriching the elite…in fact their rhetoric is the opposite, their actions also have been the opposite for the disinfranched groups (like steel and mine workers). This is a great example of being overcome by the partisan narrative and not looking at the nuance and reality of situations.
Not the party directly, but they’re fine with nominating people that do.
This amounts to arguing that if evil people keep their intentions secret, that means they are not evil. Needless to say, I don’t really buy that. Never mind that they don’t even keep it a secret anyway.
Some of them were rhetorically aghast, but none of them used their actual political power to do anything about it. Where is the vote in the House or the Senate to rein this administration in? I don’t see it.
Now now folks, there are many fine people on both sides.
The problem with “bothsides-ism” is that in this case only a handful of far-Left folks are actually advocating anything more serious in terms of civil unrest than protests, GOTV and trying to win hearts and minds through dissemination of facts and information through mainstream media and social media so that they can return the government to some sort of normalcy come November.
Whereas on the right you have a political party in power that has seemingly embraced the idea that it’s totally fine to accuse the country’s media, tech industry and opposing political party of made-up crimes based on made-up information and then threaten them all with very real consequences up to and including prosecution and incarceration. And that it’s OK to threaten violence from their base, either during campaign rallies or in the streets should an upcoming election not go their way.
So let’s review the balance one last time:
A handful of leftist loonies ------------------------- vs. ---------------------- Literal Fascism
And lest you dismiss my opinions as biased by partisan narratives, consider that up until 2016, I was an Independent who voted Republican and Democrat in fairly equal measure across all races (Obama for President, Kasich for Governor for example). The Democrats have done nothing to “win me over”, in fact I wish they would do more, it was all GOP embracing the evil that pushed me to where I stand today.
And no, you don’t have to declare evil intentions to actually be evil. This isn’t a Bond film. Since Trump was elected the GOP’s silence on so many things has spoken far louder than their supposedly shocked and frustrated words on a handful of others. It’s smoke and mirrors, designed to distract while they attempt to pass legislation like the healthcare fiasco from 2017, the tax cuts from later that year, and the PROSPER education act they’re trying to drum up votes for now, all of which do direct and lasting harm to the American people for the benefit of corporate interests and the elite. That’s not fucking narrative, it’s FACT.
Owen Wilson: Woooow.
So, if they don’t come right out and say their travel ban and actions on the border had anything to do with racism then I guess it can’t be? It’s all just about Making America Safe Again after all? Neato.
Well in this case, it would have given merit to Trumps narrative that congress was responsible for it. It was created by Trump and they applies pressure to have him change the policy he created. Any other response would have feed his narrative, and embolden his base of partisan reactionaries
NOTE: I’m not saying they a lot of this is not just pandering to their base. This is mostly true. of both sides. Do a few token things and then enrich themselves. I think you see that as only happening on one side but the reality is, its an epidemic on both sides.
As far as a groups secret purpose, that can only explain the goal of the leadership, not any of its members who are likely being duped (since its secret). Calling them evil just cements them more solidly into the camp they would otherwise might disagree with…
I hope you burn your hand on a hot stove today.
… That’s literally the GOP platform. Have you ever paid attention to what Paul Ryan’s vision of America is? It’s showering the rich with tax breaks while slashing Obamacare/Medicaid/Social Security because those people (nudge nudge) don’t “deserve” benefits.
You know this is a Red herring Fallacy right? It has nothing to with my point, but is related. Its a great Kelly ann Conway moment though…
if you want to discuss this point separately, I’m game…but pretending it had anything to do with it is silly.
Yeah, it really makes sense to try to talk to the other side. They don’t say they want to do all this evil shit! So therefore, when they keep doing it, it doesn’t really count. What the fuck.
Okay let me rephrase?
Just because the GOP’s pitch to voters isn’t “Please vote for us so we can loot the treasury via tax cuts aimed at the wealthy few among us” then it’s not what they’re doing? It’s not what happened because that’s not what their rhetoric is? Because unless I misunderstood you, that’s exactly what you said.
The reason I brought up the travel ban and the border shitshow is this is another example of what they do vs what their rhetoric is. Their rhetoric is about keeping America safe, so we just ignore what’s going on in front of our eyes and suspend any critical thinking because of what they publicly say or something?
Anyone still in the Republican party at this point isn’t an innocent rube being duped. They’re 100% on board with everything the party is doing. Everything. I feel like you’re somehow trying to rationalize a “good” person remaining a Republican but it doesn’t sound like anyone here is buying it.
Nonsense. The GOP-controlled Congress could simply have said if you don’t reverse this policy right now we will impeach you. The GOP-controlled Senate could have simple said we will not move on any appointment or any other action until you reverse this policy. People in Congress have actual power, and when they don’t use it to cause an outcome it is because they don’t want to cause that outcome.
What I see is that when Democrats have power they raise taxes on the wealthy, expand the social safety net, extend health care to more people, expand environmental protections, curtail the depredations of business, etc. When the Republicans have power, they cut taxes for the wealthy, eliminate environmental protections, take away people’s health care, try to cut social security and Medicare, pretend that serious problems are actually leftist conspiracies. Both sides are not the same. Anyone who voted for Trump knew what they were getting, and they voted for him anyway.
Only a few leaders on the right side are advocating for violence, sadly they are the ones most powerful now. I think its because its a popular theme with its base. We are ready to fight. Though not all of the base want to actually fight, many just like the tough language. I think the President though is seeking to turn this into genuine unrest as a deflection technique for his gain.
Yep.
The idea that a US President would deliberately stoke violent civil unrest is hard to believe. But it’s clearly a tactic he is prepared to use if things get bad enough for him personally.
Who would stop him?
The Globe received a bomb threat and threats directed toward staffers after it led a nationwide effort for newspapers to condemn President Donald Trump’s attacks on the media.
There is literally no universe in which this both sides narrative holds any water whatsoever. The GOP, top down, from its leaders and president, to every single person voting for it today, is fundamentally and wholly evil. Every. Single. Fucking. One. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a goddamn imbecile unworthy of your time or concern.