He’s going full-on fascist. And his cultists will merrily follow along.
I just cannot state strongly enough how totally dishonest much of the Media is. Truth doesn’t matter to them, they only have their hatred & agenda. This includes fake books, which come out about me all the time, always anonymous sources, and are pure fiction. Enemy of the People!
- Donald J Trump - 4:11 AM - 30 Aug 2018
Yeah, the Big Lie. Classic Nazi propaganda move.
Just as long as we’re not calling him and those who support and abet him evil! That would be downright uncivil of us lefties.
There’s a fine point here that I think is being missed, which contributes to the failure of different political perspectives to understand each other.
From the perspective of conservatives, taxes are not the government’s money. All that money is actually ours, and through taxation, we give some portion of it to the government. So, from this perspective, it’s not really valid to suggest that tax cuts are “raiding the government coffers”, because that money was never something the government had a right to anyway.
Now, before folks start freaking out (I can sense it), this isn’t to suggest that tax cuts have no repercussion. Of course they do. If you cut taxes, government revenues will go down, and this will mean that you need to make tough decisions about how to deal with that. You can either just keep spending at the same level and increase deficits, or you can cut other spending. To a large extent, the GOP is derelict in their current views regarding this, in that they don’t clearly link these things together. They try to say, “We are going to give the money back to the people!” and then LATER say “Hey, we can’t afford all of this stuff, for some reason!” That’s disingenuous.
Again, this is all perhaps an overly fine point, but I think it’s important to understand the perspective that the money is ours, and we are merely choosing to spend that money on stuff, as opposed to the idea that the government ultimately controls all the money, and merely allows us to keep some of it.
The money is ours but we contribute a certain portion to better society overall. Because that’s what society does, lifts up those that have been mistreated or have fallen behind for whatever reason. It benefits everyone to have a well functioning, capable, healthy society. It feels like you’re suggesting the non-GOP viewpoint is that the money belongs to the government, which is simply not true.
But it’s implied within statements like, “Tax cuts are looting the government coffers.”
Just to be clear, lest I be misunderstood, I fully appreciate and agree with us contributing money via a progressive taxation scheme to pay for things that improve our society. I’m just trying to highlight a difference in view that I feel exists between the left and the right here.
I think what some object to is the idea that taxation by a duly elected government is somehow illegitimate whereas the hoarding of wealth by officers of companies at the expense of the laborers is seen as sacrosanct and deeply woven into the fabric of nature.
Oh shit, I’ve gone all Karl Marx.
Seriously though, a spectrum of tax policies – all the way down to “slash taxes and slash all social programs” – is fair game in a democratic debate.
I think the policy aims of the GOP are deeply harmful but it’s the demagoguing of Trump, plus the anti-democratic rules-tweaking of his GOP allies, that really galls me.
It just reinforces how selfish the Republican party is. The “We Got Ours” party so screw everyone else. Which of course is bizarre, as supposedly they’re the good Christian party in America, yet their entire platform is about as anti-Christian as you can be.
Well, tax cuts seem like to equivalent to not paying are credit card bills and letting future generations (my children) pay for the bills of the current generation. Remember, we have already agreed to buy certain things.
Now I know that analogy doesn’t work, because the government isn’t a family, but it certain has a similar impact.
That’s a nice personal theory, Timex. But no one in this day and age actually believe it.
The position of the modern GOP is that all money rightfully belongs to the 1%, and they ever-so-generously allow the peasants to have some of it. No one, in the eyes of modern conservatives, deserves anything unless it is given to them by one of their “job creator” overlords. Democracy is a flaw to be fixed, since it foolishly suggests that people have some sort of intrinsic worth other than the one assigned to them by their betters.
Edit: I see that wild-eyed radical Gordon got there ahead of me.
I get the semantic argument you’re making, but… The deficit is exploding in order for the wealthy to have a lighter tax burden. The treasury is empty and has a 21+ trillion dollar hole in it, a hole that is going to have to be filled by people like me. Out of my pocket.
It sounds like looting to me, for all intents and purposes. I had thought I have even seen you use similar terminology to describe some of the corruption going on in the current GOP-held government (Scott Pruitt and friends, for example).
I guess in that case I am a imbecile unworthy of your time or concern. oh well.
I take solace that I least I have integrity and humility…
That’s true and silly depending on who you are talking about within the GOP. Some of the leadership yes, all of the leadership, no. Some leadership wants to curtail financing and spend their taxes of every support program out there, or they want to balance the out of control budget and prevent us from being the next Greece, or a array of beliefs between and around those.
Some of the GOP voters, yes, all of the GOP voters no! Some voters hate liberals for wanting to finance and spend their taxes of every support program out there, and a array of beliefs between and around those two.
I think many in the GOP are also looting the coffers for their own personal gain, but then again I can point out similar group that exists on the left. They use the partisan flag as cover as they run the nation to ground.
Hellboy thinks there are still some actual, non-Trumpling conservatives out there:
If you don’t follow his Twitter, he’s… not a fan of President Shithole.
Timex, one thing to think about on the issue of how to characterize taxes and tax cuts: the GOP cut taxes on corporations, thus reducing government revenue, but did not cut spending which means that the GOP caused an increase in the debt, which under our Constitution must be paid by the US government, which in turn means paying out future government revenue. In other words, although the GOP may not have directly “stolen from the government coffers” in terms of the actual legal ownership of the funds, they did slap a future debt and tax liability onto the government, and the taxpayers, which is taking money away that the government would normally have for other uses. So I do consider this type of corporate tax cut, unmatched by spending cuts, as a form of looting. It’s just indirect which is why it’s easier to slip past the voters. But still very very real.
I mean if someone doesn’t pick your pocket but illicitly charges something on your credit card so that you have to pay it in the future, that’s still a form of theft, right?
I think if you are still trying to argue “Not All GOP” in August of 2018, you may want to go back and take a closer look at just who remains in positions of power within the party and who is either being actively shunned and labeled as “RINO” or is walking away from politics altogether. This is not Reagan’s GOP, or GW Bush’s GOP, or even Kasich’s GOP, 2016 was a radical shift in the base philosophy of the party, and the people in control in 2018 are pushing it even further away from everything it once stood for. The GOP leadership of 2018 is 60% corporate shills out to use their political offices to further the gains of their private companies, 30% racist nutsacks excited to finally have legitimate control over government, and 10% old-school GOP on their way out the door.
They are certainly trying to create that, and has some success, but complete victory, I disagree. I wont argue that some interests are trying to pull/push in that direction and shed anyone not declaring personal fealty.
The controlling interest. The ones in control are doing that. They are the party. You’re the one they want to purge (I’m assuming you’re “one of the good ones”)
I’m a hard core centralist, in that I loathe being sold narratives, but I had sympathies to the right spectrum for a variety of reasons I mentioned previously.
Your right, I don’t fit within either party anymore, sitting outside I clearly hear the taint of partisan narratives and how pits people against each other over abstract/inaccurative narratives while individuals use that cover to weaken national interests and enrich their self interests (left and right)
Trump is the ultimate manifestation of that behavior taken to ridiculous extremes
This is the one way that both parties are the same, and I can site specific examples for either side here.
I’ll agree that some of the rights ongoing narrative seems to be going into a more fantastical direction of late.
I cant help but think of the bible, how a third of angel followed Lucifer into rebellion. I think Trumps plan almost mirrors that, take a third of the country into a fanatical position and see how much he can get from it… Note this is my narrative, but I cant find a compelling argument against it.
I’ll bite. Point to an example similar to, say, the Democrats deciding to steal a SCOTUS nomination from the other side by refusing to consider any nominee.
Edit: No, that’s not fair, because it isn’t responsive to your claim, sorry. Instead, point to an example of the Democrats engaging in abstract/inaccurative narratives while individuals use that cover to weaken national interests and enrich their self interests.