Civilization V

[AlanQ]

Guys, I think Tom Chick was right and the math is f*ed. I’ve been running a deficit for several turns. I finally decided I’d do something about it and make sure soldier costs were correct. My deicit was -5g/turn. So I decided to delete a warrior… and it balanced my budget.

Nowhere do I see anything that says a lowly Warrior costs 5 gold/turn.

It seems to be based on something other than per-unit. I will delete 3 units and my income won’t change. Then delete a worker, and it will shoot up 5 gold. I think there are basically thresholds for upkeep as opposed to a per unit cost, kind of like in Warcraft 3.

So basically the math probably isn’t f*ed, the system just isn’t that well explained.

[James_Johnson]

I ran into a Peace Treaty bug that resulted in a permanent peace treaty, which meant I could never attack my Greek or French neighbors. I massed a force waiting for the day we could declare war, but 100 turns later it still never came as the treaty never expired. I wasted a massive amount of production and time on those units, and it pissed me off that I couldn’t actually use them.

I eventually just sent everything across the ocean to bully the English, leaving nothing to defend myself from my extremely aggressive neighbor. He was just as paralyzed as I was, so who cares?

Guys, I think Tom Chick was right and the math is f*ed. I’ve been running a deficit for several turns. I finally decided I’d do something about it and make sure soldier costs were correct. My deicit was -5g/turn. So I decided to delete a warrior… and it balanced my budget.

Nowhere do I see anything that says a lowly Warrior costs 5 gold/turn.

Yeah. When my gold looked funky I deleted a worker and went from -5 to +14.

There is definitely hidden unit upkeep cost (there’s a culture pick in the Industrial era under Power, or whatever, that reduces upkeep by 33%) but it also seems like there’s an “Over a limit” upkeep multiplier or something.

[JMR]

Does the game prohibit you from accidentally trading away your luxury resources leaving your people pissed? I think Civ 4 did that, right? BTW, what’s the point of trading one luxury for another with another Civ? Is there a net gain?

[KevinC]

Well you only get a happy bonus from the first of a particular luxury and it seems like the map generator likes to clump resource types into regions.

In my last game for instance, I had 7 gold mines, a handful of silver, but no silk or spices. So I trade one gold for one spice from another player who has a surplus of the goods I need.

There’s no reason to trade away a luxury resource for another if it’s the only one of it’s type you have.

[AlanQ]

There’s no reason to trade away a luxury resource for another if it’s the only one of it’s type you have.

Unless one of your cities is asking for a particular resource you don’t have but can trade for, I guess.

[KevinC]

Unless one of your cities is asking for a particular resource you don’t have but can trade for, I guess.

That’s true, I was thinking only in terms of +happy faces.

[jpinard]

Yeah. When my gold looked funky I deleted a worker and went from -5 to +14.

There is definitely hidden unit upkeep cost (there’s a culture pick in the Industrial era under Power, or whatever, that reduces upkeep by 33%) but it also seems like there’s an “Over a limit” upkeep multiplier or something.

I know there’s some kind of upkeep cost, but they don’t list it for any units, the word “upkeep” isn’t even mentioned in the manual, there’s no upkeep costs for individual units, and no description in the Civelopedia. Seeing how that will bankrupt an Empire it seems like a no-brainer to describe it in detail somewhere.

i saw dasein - until they actual tell us the mechanic, the logic guess is that something is broken. And people were ragging on Tom for his statement about the math. It’s not his fault the design team decided to hide a massive fundamental of the game.

[Skinner]

You know that you can make them puppets when you conquer them and then annex them one at a time if you choose? Puppets still generate some unhappiness, but not as much, plus the trade route thing I said earlier.

Do you get their resources?

[KevinC]

You get all the puppet income/resources, you just can’t do anything that would require you to enter the city screen (i.e. set production, tell them what tile to work, etc).

[roBurky]

Yeah. When my gold looked funky I deleted a worker and went from -5 to +14.

There is definitely hidden unit upkeep cost (there’s a culture pick in the Industrial era under Power, or whatever, that reduces upkeep by 33%) but it also seems like there’s an “Over a limit” upkeep multiplier or something.

Oh!

I remember there being a discussion about unit caps in this thread before the game was released. Someone revealed that there was a cap based on number of cities, population points, stuff like that, and when you went above it the maintenance costs increase.

It’s rather frustrating that there’s no mention/explanation of that in the game, though, if true.

[Skinner]

What are the downsides to having a puppet city over not having the city at all?

Also, does anyone know how the unit maintenance is calculated?

You have to defend it with units you produce and develop the tile with your workers, it’s my understanding.

Basically, the puppet builds whatever buildings it does and gives you gold and science (I think) but you have to defend it and improve it’s tiles. I’m not sure if you get its resources but it wouln’t make sense if you didn’t.

[Skinner]

Ran into one today–argh I can’t remember which–that reverts control over the current and surrounding hexes to you. Is this what you’re referring to?

— Alan

That’s the Great Artist. They can also make a tile improvement that delivers +4 culture.

[Skinner]

Guys, I think Tom Chick was right and the math is f*ed. I’ve been running a deficit for several turns. I finally decided I’d do something about it and make sure soldier costs were correct. My deicit was -5g/turn. So I decided to delete a warrior… and it balanced my budget.

Nowhere do I see anything that says a lowly Warrior costs 5 gold/turn.

Once I deleted a worker and it saved me 2 gold per turn. The next time I did it, it didn’t save anything. I dunno. I’m going to pay more attention on my next play through.

[Skinner]

There’s no reason to trade away a luxury resource for another if it’s the only one of it’s type you have.

you can trade it away to get a “We love the King Day” in a certain city who demands a certain resource.

I’ve done that a number of times.

Damn. Too slow.

[Skinner]

Oh!

I remember there being a discussion about unit caps in this thread before the game was released. Someone revealed that there was a cap based on number of cities, population points, stuff like that, and when you went above it the maintenance costs increase.

It’s rather frustrating that there’s no mention/explanation of that in the game, though, if true.

In the military screen info page they have a breakdown of “supply”. I see how it’s calculated and I see how the units affect it but I’ve never come close to exceeding it and my unit maintenance I think is way high, proportionately.

[Strollen]

I know there’s some kind of upkeep cost, but they don’t list it for any units, the word “upkeep” isn’t even mentioned in the manual, there’s no upkeep costs for individual units, and no description in the Civelopedia. Seeing how that will bankrupt an Empire it seems like a no-brainer to describe it in detail somewhere.

i saw dasein - until they actual tell us the mechanic, the logic guess is that something is broken. And people were ragging on Tom for his statement about the math. It’s not his fault the design team decided to hide a massive fundamental of the game.

There is a thread over in Civ Fanatics, trying to figure it out. In my last game by the early 1900 my unit costs was around 200-250 small compared to building maintenance of 450 ugh. I think it goes up in groups of two (perhaps this is map size or difficulty dependent.) and all units seem to count equally great people, workers,and yes GDR. I found that gifting a pikeman AND deleting a worker dropped it by 15, wow. Getting rid of two more units saved me 12 more gold/turn.

There also is a supply cap, which is broken down but in my case was roughly twice the size of my army, Jon S said the supply cap is a soft cap on the number of units. I am guessing if you want to field a big army you need the Autocrat social tree.

[jpinard]

There is a thread over in Civ Fanatics, trying to figure it out. In my last game by the early 1900 my unit costs was around 200-250 small compared to building maintenance of 450 ugh. I think it goes up in groups of two (perhaps this is map size or difficulty dependent.) and all units seem to count equally great people, workers,and yes GDR. I found that gifting a pikeman AND deleting a worker dropped it by 15, wow. Getting rid of two more units saved me 12 more gold/turn.

There also is a supply cap, which is broken down but in my case was roughly twice the size of my army, Jon S said the supply cap is a soft cap on the number of units. I am guessing if you want to field a big army you need the Autocrat social tree.

My supply level is fine (50% in reserve). New players (my Uncle got this too) will be crippled by the lack of documentation on this mechanic - with no way to understand what’s going on.

[Mr_Popov]

1. I don’t like how units with orders move AFTER ending the turn. unused moves are wasted especially for workers where they could start building a mine/farm etc.

2. I also miss the ability to see how much longer a worker has on a specific improvement by hovering the mouse over that tile.

I really hate point 1 the most though!

Also regarding the “ooh notifications!!” civ IV had them too when you enabled them in the options (minimize popups I think it was)

Now that I actually have a few hours to sit down and play with the game, I must correct myself here

1. Units with missions move at the end of the turn which many have pointed out is beneficial so you may cancel their missions. You still get a chance to use their left over moves as the game will focus on those units before the actual turn ends, so this is a definite plus.

2. I was just not patient enough and indeed you do get a tooltip telling you how many turns left on worker builds if you wait long enough (a bit too long for me but it’s adjustable in the options thankfully).

[roBurky]

There is a thread over in Civ Fanatics, trying to figure it out. In my last game by the early 1900 my unit costs was around 200-250 small compared to building maintenance of 450 ugh. I think it goes up in groups of two (perhaps this is map size or difficulty dependent.) and all units seem to count equally great people, workers,and yes GDR. I found that gifting a pikeman AND deleting a worker dropped it by 15, wow. Getting rid of two more units saved me 12 more gold/turn.

There also is a supply cap, which is broken down but in my case was roughly twice the size of my army, Jon S said the supply cap is a soft cap on the number of units. I am guessing if you want to field a big army you need the Autocrat social tree.

If the maintenance cost was at least recalculated for each unit you gained/lost, and the tooltip on the delete button told you how much gold per turn you would save, it wouldn’t be so bad. You could make decisions on how much to trim your forces. As it is, you can end up crippling your army trying to fix your income, and it not being enough. Or be struggling along for centuries without realising removing one idle worker would make you rich.

Even better if the tooltip on units when building them included an estimate of how much your maintenance cost was going to increase.

[jpinard]

If the maintenance cost was at least recalculated for each unit you gained/lost, and the tooltip on the delete button told you how much gold per turn you would save, it wouldn’t be so bad. You could make decisions on how much to trim your forces. As it is, you can end up crippling your army trying to fix your income, and it not being enough. Or be struggling along for centuries without realising removing one idle worker would make you rich.

Even better if the tooltip on units when building them included an estimate of how much your maintenance cost was going to increase.

They need to give us back detailed stats pages like we had in all the other Civs. Once again, I think they didn’t because they knew the AI was horrible (or they designed it from the ground up for Xbox360).
The more I play - the more I hate the UI. It has none of the character of the previous Civs and just oozes “easy port to console”.