Cleve Blakemore - from people who know

Cleve is tiresome. His antics bore me. I really wish he’d come up with some new shtick. But hey, it seems to amuse a few of you, for whatever reason. What next, knock knock jokes? OMFG THE HILARITY!

While I don’t agree with his racist ideas or doomsday politics, he can be quite funny at times – I can always look at a piece of writing as a piece of writing and enjoy it for being well written, politics aside.

Anyway, whenever you post about how you don’t like Cleve, you’re giving him the attention he enjoys. Why not just ignore threads like this?

Why didn’t you just ignore him on usenet, Mark?

Today it seems to me providential that Fate should have chosen Braunau on the Inn as my birthplace. For this little town lies on the boundary between two German states which we of the younger generation at least have made it our life work to reunite by every means at our disposal.

German-Austria must return to the great German mother country, and not because of any economic considerations. No, and again no: even if such a union were unimportant from an economic point of view; yes, even if it were harmful, it must nevertheless take place. One blood demands one Reich. Never will the German nation possess the moral right to engage in colonial politics until, at least, it embraces its own sons within a single state. Only when the Reich borders include the very last German, but can no longer guarantee his daily bread, will the moral right to acquire foreign soil arise from the distress of our own people. Their sword will become our plow, and from the tears of war the daily bread of future generations will grow. And so this little city on the border seems to me the symbol of a great mission. And in another respect as well, it looms as an admonition to the present day. More than a hundred years ago, this insignificant place had the distinction of being immortalized in the annals at least of German history, for it was the scene of a tragic catastrophe which gripped the entire German nation. At the time of our fatherland’s deepest humiliation, Johannes Palm of Nuremberg, burgher, bookseller, uncompromising nationalist and French hater, died there for the Germany which he loved so passionately even in her misfortune. He had stubbornly refused to denounce his accomplices who were in fact his superiors. In thus he resembled Leo Schlageter. And like him, he was denounced to the French by a representative of his government An Augsburg police chief won this unenviable fame, thus furnishing an example for our modern German officials in Herr Severing’s Reich.

In this little town on the Inn, gilded by the rays of German martyrdom, Bavarian by blood, technically Austrian, lived my parents in the late eighties of the past century…

I’ve learned since then.

But go ahead and keep posting non sequiter anti-Cleve comments in every thread you can find. On second thought, don’t.

Today it seems to me providential that Fate should have chosen Braunau on the Inn as my birthplace. For this little town lies on the boundary between two German states which we of the younger generation at least have made it our life work to reunite by every means at our disposal.

German-Austria must return to the great German mother country, and not because of any economic considerations. No, and again no: even if such a union were unimportant from an economic point of view; yes, even if it were harmful, it must nevertheless take place. One blood demands one Reich. Never will the German nation possess the moral right to engage in colonial politics until, at least, it embraces its own sons within a single state. Only when the Reich borders include the very last German, but can no longer guarantee his daily bread, will the moral right to acquire foreign soil arise from the distress of our own people. Their sword will become our plow, and from the tears of war the daily bread of future generations will grow. And so this little city on the border seems to me the symbol of a great mission. And in another respect as well, it looms as an admonition to the present day. More than a hundred years ago, this insignificant place had the distinction of being immortalized in the annals at least of German history, for it was the scene of a tragic catastrophe which gripped the entire German nation. At the time of our fatherland’s deepest humiliation, Johannes Palm of Nuremberg, burgher, bookseller, uncompromising nationalist and French hater, died there for the Germany which he loved so passionately even in her misfortune. He had stubbornly refused to denounce his accomplices who were in fact his superiors. In thus he resembled Leo Schlageter. And like him, he was denounced to the French by a representative of his government An Augsburg police chief won this unenviable fame, thus furnishing an example for our modern German officials in Herr Severing’s Reich.

In this little town on the Inn, gilded by the rays of German martyrdom, Bavarian by blood, technically Austrian, lived my parents in the late eighties of the past century…[/quote]

I’m guessing this is something Hitler wrote? And since Hitler wrote stuff, and Cleve writes stuff, Cleve is just as likely to grab the reins of power in some nation and lead the world into WWIII?

Oh wait – if we refuse to allow Cleve to post messages, the world will be saved? This is the subtext of your post? Whew! Glad I decoded it in time! We know how we can save the world now.

Thanks!

I’ve learned since then.

But go ahead and keep posting non sequiter anti-Cleve comments in every thread you can find. On second thought, don’t.[/quote]

Seems you haven’t.

Okay, I will. On second thought, ban me.

It’s a race between Chet, Met_K and Ignatius to see who qualifies as the most demented, disjointed and irrelevant posters to QT3. Next up Ignatius will post a picture of Charles Manson with no text … "see this guy! YEAH! See what I"M SAYIN??? THE OMINOUS PARALLELS ARE CHILLING!!! Cleve’s a guy who lives in Australia - Charlie lived in California, too! Plus, they’re both CRAZY, I TELL YA! YEAH!!! SEE WHAT I’M SAYIN’ HERE!!! HUH??? HUH??? NEXT, I’m GOING TO POST A PICTURE OF GENGHIS KHAN TRANSPARENTLY OVERLAID ON A PHOTO OF CLEVE!!! RIGHT? RIGHT!!! EXACTAMUNDO, BABY!!! YEAH!!! GENGHIS WAS A BIG BUFFED GUY, TOO!!! THE OMINOUS PARALLELS!!!

I’ve learned since then.

But go ahead and keep posting non sequiter anti-Cleve comments in every thread you can find. On second thought, don’t.[/quote]

Seems you haven’t.

Okay, I will. On second thought, ban me.[/quote]

Look, I have no desire to ban anyone. Just be a bit more mature and restrain yourself. There’s no need to stick anti-anyone posts into a thread on a game in the games forum. Doesn’t that make sense, or are you incapable of resisting that? I only noticed because you did it in several different threads.

Blast Cleve all you want in the political threads. Blast Cleve about his failure to deliver Grimoire in a gaming thread. Get it out if you need to get it out. Don’t spread your personal vendetta into threads that have nothing to do with Cleve, ok? That’s fair, isn’t it?

I just like it when people mention me in their posts. It is pretty easy to put a nickel in Cleve and get the desired results. He is like some old mechanical bank, put the nickel in and watch the gears slowly flail around trying to stick the nickel in the slot.

I am fascinated by the jerky movement and simple mechanics behind those old mechanical banks and the same can be said for Cleve and what he passes off as wit or logic.

Seems he has a great deal of pent up rage, with the black man making games while fate is holding down his masterpiece or whatever.

Chet
ps. Cleve where is your website?

No, actually that isn’t the “subtext” at all, Mark. The “subtext” (aptly named, I guess, since it went beneath your fine-tuned literary sensibilities) is that since you are able to enjoy “good writing” regardless of the political content, you should be able to enjoy Mein Kampf even more than you enjoy Cleve’s posts, since it is much more beautifully written than Cleve’s obscene efforts to mold the English language into something resembling meaning.

It doesn’t have anything to do with “Cleve taking over the world”; it doesn’t have anything to do with Cleve, really. It has to do with your shockingly amoral statement that you can enjoy good writing regardless of the content.

Haven’t read Mein Kampf, but if it is well-written, I could appreciate it for that and still disagree with it. I don’t see a conflict here. Should we ban writings we don’t agree with? Let’s have a book-burning and roast marshmallows!

Well, why don’t you give it a read, then, Mark. I see you sitting in the park with your copy of Mein Kampf, with a bemused grin on your face while you enjoy the delicate metaphors.

“Are you doing research about neo-nazis?” the Jewish girl asks.

“No, I just enjoy his beautiful use of language,” Mark replies, returning with a smile to the beloved book.

Myself, I don’t see any need to burn books, because I believe the vast majority of people – when they can read – will, unlike you, appreciate the moral deficiency of Hitler’s prose.

I haven’t read Mein Kampf because I wasn’t interested in reading it. You, however, seemed to appreciate it for its prose:

“…should be able to enjoy Mein Kampf even more than you enjoy Cleve’s posts, since it is much more beautifully written than Cleve’s obscene efforts to mold the English language into something resembling meaning.”

Somehow, you managed to make that value statement, which is just a rephrasing of my stated feeling about finding something to enjoy in a piece of writing based on how well it is written. Nowhere did I say that something that is well-written is by definition morally acceptable. I might enjoy reading the Marquis de Sade and yet resist condoning S&M as something everyone should try.

I’m not defending Hitler, but comparing Cleve to Hitler, or the lack of response of the Qt3 moderators to Cleve to the lack of response of whomever to Hitler many years ago is just nutty. There is no comparison.

I think I’d also find it difficult to separate the quality of the prose from the content. I’m sure somebody could write a beautifully worded essay about why, for example, all jews and blacks should be doused in gasoline and burned, filled with eloquent prose and evocative imagery, but my revulsion at what’s being advocated would almost certainly negate any appreciation I might otherwise have had for the quality of the writing.

I haven’t compared anything to Cleve. As far as I recall I haven’t mentioned Cleve in this thread except to ensure you that my comments were largely unrelated to him.

But since you insist on returning to that topic, what Cleve has posted in this forum is, generally speaking, more immediately offensive than anything you’ll find in Mein Kampf, his inability to produce results in the real world notwithstanding.

I think I’d also find it difficult to separate the quality of the prose from the content. I’m sure somebody could write a beautifully worded essay about why, for example, all jews and blacks should be doused in gasoline and burned, filled with eloquent prose and evocative imagery, but my repulsion for what’s being advocated would almost certainly negate any appreciation I might have for the quality of the writing.[/quote]

That’s a bit of a strawman example. I doubt the vast majority of us would be able to enjoy something like that, no matter how beautiful the writing.

That said, if someone wants to espouse that, how many times will you continue to read that person’s writings? I’d think once would be more than enough. You don’t debate people like that. You don’t see members of the KKK appearing as guests to debate race issues, unless some show is desparate for ratings. They have been marginalized and ignored because of their views.

[quote=“Ignatius_P_Reilly”]

I haven’t compared anything to Cleve. As far as I recall I haven’t mentioned Cleve in this thread except to ensure you that my comments were largely unrelated to him.

But since you insist on returning to that topic, what Cleve has posted in this forum is, generally speaking, more immediately offensive than anything you’ll find in Mein Kampf, his inability to produce results in the real world notwithstanding.[/quote]

I may have made the mistake in thinking your posts were related to Cleve simply because this is a thread about Cleve.

You have deemed Cleve offensive in this post, at least. I’ll go out on a limb and guess that mostly it’s Cleve’s ideas that are offensive? If I’m mostly right, what do you suggest the moderators do about posters who offend our sensibilities with their ideas?

I’m also curious about why you quoted Mein Kampf? That had nothing to do with Cleve’s posts? I’m probably being dense, but I just don’t get that. Could you spell it out for me?

Well apparently on QT3, you do - as evidenced by the Ku Klux Kleve bandwagon continuing to roll merrily along with plenty of posters challenging his views. Not that I’m complaining any longer - I think I’ve finally attained that particular brand of QT3 enlightenment where you are no longer in any way bothered by Cleve Claven’s posts, and merely appreciate them for their undeniable comedic value.

Well apparently on QT3, you do - as evidenced by the Ku Klux Kleve bandwagon continuing to roll merrily along with plenty of posters challenging his views. Not that I’m complaining any longer - I think I’ve finally attained that particular brand of QT3 enlightenment where you are no longer in any way bothered by Cleve Claven’s posts, and merely appreciate them for their undeniable comedic value.[/quote]

I think it’s great and fine when people challenge Cleve’s views, or Jason McCullough’s views, or anyone else’s views. All I hope for is that we keep it contained in the appropriate forum, and people understand that contrary, fringe, and outright kooky views aren’t going to result in banning, even if these views are offensive.