Cleve Blakemore - from people who know

IT’S THE FACT THAT HE IS FUCKING ANNOYING, MARK. THE FACT THAT HE CANNOT POST ON HIS OWN THREADS, MARK.

Jesus fucking Christ! Stupid! Fucking! Idiot!

Well apparently on QT3, you do - as evidenced by the Ku Klux Kleve bandwagon continuing to roll merrily along with plenty of posters challenging his views. Not that I’m complaining any longer - I think I’ve finally attained that particular brand of QT3 enlightenment where you are no longer in any way bothered by Cleve Claven’s posts, and merely appreciate them for their undeniable comedic value.[/quote]

I think Cleve has actually toned down quite a bit. Whether this is in response to the crusade you, Jeff Green, and others started or if he simply got tired of posting racist bile, I don’t know, but I am thankful. At this point his posts are still present strong viewpoints, but I haven’t seen the really nasty hateful comments I saw coming from him a few weeks ago.

As I discovered on the Paging Jason and Tim thread, I actually agree with him on some stuff – who’d have thunked?

Is there a limit to what’s offensive? You can say anything in a general sense, be it racism, murder, rape (all contained in Cleve’s posts) and still not be banned? Frankly I don’t care who does or doesn’t get banned, if it gets bad enough I’ll just stop coming here. BUT, you know there are limits, imo. I don’t know exactly what they would be, but I’m pretty sure some of Cleve’s remarks border on bannable on most forums. And you DO know that you are inviting trolls to push that limit. Somebody is going to ocme on this board and spew some vile shit that goes way beyond Cleve’s. How long before you hit the ban button?

also to add, I don’t think Cleve should be banned. I can kind of get what hes saying. In fact, I think Cleve -deep down!- is a liberal … haha!

I reckon there will be somebody out there who wants to -test- Mark and Tom’s patience. Get ready… the gently touching will come!

etc

I don’t think that his ideas are the problem. I think it’s the way he presents (or was presenting) them. It’s one thing to carry on a discussion on why a particular continent has not done as well as Europe, or even to have a discussion on the genetic differences between races. It’s another thing to start comparing specific ethnic groups to monkeys. Unless Cleve really believes that members of certain ethnic groups are closer genetically to monkeys than they are to human beings, he’s not really presenting an idea, instead he’s purposely being hateful. It’s not like his hate-filled posts were really written as a means of advancing his arguments. In fact, it’s just the opposite, in several cases his specific wording was so offensive I think most of us turned away from his posts without any attempt to determine what the underlying idea he was trying to present was.

In my mind, hate-filled speech at the level of some of Cleve’s posts simply has no place in civilized society. They are posting not to present ideas, but specifically to demean members of an ethnic group. This type of speech may be protected under the first amendment, but that doesn’t mean that social groups including Qt3 shouldn’t say that people who make those kind of comments are unwelcome here. There is absolutely no reason why an African American coming to this board should have to read the kind of bile that Cleve was posting. I believe, we should stand up and say that we find that kind of language offensive and that while Cleve is more than welcome to continue presenting ideas here, he cannot do so using the kind of offensive, hateful language which he has used in the past.

How odd. You speak of blacks as though they were some kind of protected animal species you have personally taken under your wing. Judging by your paternal commitment to cupping your hands over their nappy ears to prevent them from hearing anything unseemly, I would guess that you privately hold them in a much lower regard than you would admit to here.

Let’s allow visitors to this board to defend themselves.

Hear that sound? That’s tumbleweeds blowing past with the lonely sound of the wind dragging them along the dusty avenues.

Where is the black Cleve? Where is he? I want to read him. Articulate, charming, disarming, witty, a wordsmith of no small powers, with his outrageously endearing comebacks always laced with a bit of absurd humor and gently mocking irreverence, I am certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that if such a man existed he would overturn all my convictions about race within a few hours. He would chide me on this board with his broad mastery of a hundred subjects and disciplines and before he was finished he would have completed his defense of black men by simply displaying his own gifts. I would leave here much wiser and with the certainty that there is something I must have overlooked in gathering my information about the world however much greater my exposure might be when compared with some common dullard like yourself. The black Cleve would make me laugh so often I would lose the the requisite ground by simple virtue of conceding his own natural superiority to men in general as evidenced in his grace and agility as a writer.

Where is the black Cleve? I want to read him.

This is the punchline. There is no black Cleve. There never will be. The existence of a black Cleve would invalidate all of my generalizations about blacks in general in the blink of an eye. If you think you know where I can find a black Cleve or any writer of color who is within a couple of light years of my own modest skill as a writer, point me to him. I want to see him.

You think about that, if you believe you can honestly call what goes on in that cross-eyed dimwitted puddin’ head of yours thinking.

Hallelujah!
Another convert :D

Where is the black Cleve? Where is he? I want to read him. Articulate, charming, disarming, witty, a wordsmith of no small powers, with his outrageously endearing comebacks always laced with a bit of absurd humor and gently mocking irreverence, I am certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that if such a man existed he would overturn all my convictions about race within a few hours. He would chide me on this board with his broad mastery of a hundred subjects and disciplines and before he was finished he would have completed his defense of black men by simply displaying his own gifts. I would leave here much wiser and with the certainty that there is something I must have overlooked in gathering my information about the world however much greater my exposure might be when compared with some common dullard like yourself. The black Cleve would make me laugh so often I would lose the the requisite ground by simple virtue of conceding his own natural superiority to men in general as evidenced in his grace and agility as a writer.

Where is the black Cleve? I want to read him.

This is the punchline. There is no black Cleve. There never will be. The existence of a black Cleve would invalidate all of my generalizations about blacks in general in the blink of an eye. If you think you know where I can find a black Cleve or any writer of color who is within a couple of light years of my own modest skill as a writer, point me to him. I want to see him.

You think about that, if you believe you can honestly call what goes on in that cross-eyed dimwitted puddin’ head of yours thinking.

Cleve, according to your description, there is also no white Cleve.

Except in your mind.

Can we compare these totals?
Games released by Derek Smart? Games released by Cleve?

And Mark, if you seriously do not see what is offensive past anything else on this forum in his last post, I really don’t know what to say. Why would an educated anybody, black or white, come to this forum after reading a post like that?

Chet

Why would an educated anybody, black or white, come to this forum after reading a post like that?

Because there’s plenty of other stuff to read here? Because Cleve is easy to ignore? Because no one with an ounce of sense should give Cleve’s posts any more credence than Gary’s comment about getting a boner when he stabs a baby? Because Sparky does great Photoshopping and you can get in on whatever filesharing wumpus and his buddies are doing?

Am I close? How many more guesses do I get?

 -Tom, who would frankly rather not be posting in this thread

I think Cleve has actually toned down quite a bit. Whether this is in response to the crusade you, Jeff Green, and others started or if he simply got tired of posting racist bile, I don’t know, but I am thankful. At this point his posts are still present strong viewpoints, but I haven’t seen the really nasty hateful comments I saw coming from him a few weeks ago.

There’s no question that this has happened. I think “Cleve” knew that he’d be banned (or gently touched, your choice) sooner or later if that continued.

Outside of the racist hate speech, which had to stop, I have no valid reason for removing Cleve from the boards. I just wish he’d come up with something more interesting to post than the same old repetitive Cleve crap. If I wanted to read that, I could trawl through usenet archives.

Most of all, I’m unconvinced that “Cleve” has any legitimate interest in discussion. Cleve posts vitrolic crap for the sole purpose of later composing witty, over the top retorts to the inevitable responses. You know, hitting people so hard their skeletons fly out of their bodies, and other knee slappers. But hey, Mark is amused, so: mission accomplished.

Anyone who is offended and leaves due to posts by Kleve must never turn on the TV, radio, go out of the house, talk to people, or even open their eyes to look out the window very often. He’s offensive. This world is full of things that are offensive to all five of our senses and if we let each offense drive us from one place and then another, we might as well sequester ourselves on a pond somewhere and write poetry like Dr. Crypt does. Unfortunately, animals will fuck in your backyard and you will have to stay inside during each animals mating season, but that is the price you pay for a life which is blissfully free of offensive behavior.

Tyjenks you are the impossible.

Ipso Facto.

Cheerio!

etc

When I was 10 we used to call up the white power hot-line for laughs. We could never get past the - “The Jew, is using the black as muscle.” - without laughing so hard the rest of the message was lost.

I don’t care what else was on those tapes, it could have been how to get free matchbox cars, we never would have believed or listened to any of it. Even at 10 we could comprehend how silly such statements were.

And sure, I could go anywhere and see hate speech and much more vile things. But why? Should we make sure we include everything vile everywhere? Just because we can?

Maybe someone should start writing child porn fiction and posting it here just to make sure that base is covered?

Chet

Anyone who is offended and leaves due to posts by Kleve must never turn on the TV, radio, go out of the house, talk to people, or even open their eyes to look out the window very often. He’s offensive.

He was offensive. Now that the hate speech has stopped, he’s just boring.

Interesting vague drifting sophistry - or not. Too bad nobody taught you how to reason inductively when you were little because it is sure as hell too late to learn now. Your arguments are erratic straw men without any conclusions to draw other than weak analogies and guilt by association.

I’m still waiting on that link to the black Cleve. Show me the black Mencke. I want to read him. Link me to the black Whitman. Where is he? How about the black Schopenhauer? Let me see the link to the black Wilde. Where is he? Let me see his work. I want to read the dark Voltaire or the beige Joyce. C’mon, you’re not claiming that the geniuses in the ghetto can’t access pencil and paper? What about the geniuses in the middle class and upper middle class neighborhoods? Let me guess, whitey be monopolizin’ de felt-tipped pen industry, he be hab a clampdown on de means of production for de graphite leads. Dats why I be suckin’ down dis heah D40 malt liquor instead of off writin’ de next masterpiece. See heah, de man be clusterin’ all de newsprint pads for hisself and rejectin’ de bruddas who be sendin’ dey work in on bark. Yessahm. Time fo de repamarations.

And Cleve, I am still wondering; where is your website?

How is it that Derek Smart has time to not only finish a couple of games, but also post even more than you in forums around the world, while you struggle with your first game?

Is Derek Smart really nothing but a front?

Chet

Not the black Cleve

Something much more accomplished and intelligent than a black doppelganger of you could be. I’m sure we’ll be heralded with amazing tales of the mans faults and how simple he was, but nothing can change the level of intelligence and understanding he had. So, go ahead Cleve, blast away.

Instead, I’d say, "Ooooooohkay, John, I’ll just go back to my cubicle. Sorry for asking you about the time

You couldn’t just check the time on your computer? Or was the above anecdote purely a work of illustrative fiction? Unless, of course, you were making small talk with a man you’d already identified as “gay” and apparently unlikable.

“And Mark, if you seriously do not see what is offensive past anything else on this forum in his last post, I really don’t know what to say. Why would an educated anybody, black or white, come to this forum after reading a post like that?”

It’s not a matter of my finding something offensive or not, though I find it difficult to get offended by posts on message boards.

Anyway, what would you have me do? Start removing all posts I find offensive? I’m pretty liberal. I could, in theory, work myself up to find conservative viewpoints offensive. Should I remove those? I was somewhat appalled by the posts piling on support of the execution of a man with the mental awareness of a seven year old. Should I remove those posts? Ban those posters?

Isn’t it simpler just to ignore posts?

Who, exactly, feels threatened by Cleve? Do you folks also dodge to the opposite side of the steet when you see rambling bums in your local downtown area, addled as they are with Tourette’s Syndrome and the moldy licorice smell of dried vomit?

If you’re going to treat Cleve like the miserable, soul-broken paranoiac he is, at least be consistent, instead of fueling his image of his detractors as a bunch of shrill pansies.

But then, couldn’t people just ignore posts about Cleve? Seems contradictory.

But he seem gone, so all is moot.

Maybe.

Chet