Of course you can just have respawns. The point of no respawns is to add tension and excitement to the game, make it more meaningful when you die. There are tons and tons and tons of games where you respawn right away that are also fun.
I like the feeling of only having one chance, and making it count. Brilliant success or crushing defeat.
Though I like the idea of respawning as less than powerful enemy soldiers as a game type, that sounds like great fun.
Lies. You don’t honestly believe this, you have been fooled to imagine it as being reasonable and true. Take back your time, and demand better game design.
If you want a functional equivalent - does death “exist” in a single player game? In the context of saves, quicksaves, et al - no, it does not. So I’m assuming that by your standards single player games are lacking in tension and excitement due to the ability to come back to life as you please?
…and then you respawn, as a team. Complete the circuit.
Judging from the number of players that are addicted to it, they don’t really need better design. That isn’t to say I’d frown upon other games for trying something different and fun, but cs is probably a bad example. It’s the way it is for a reason.
I’m not sure what that comment about me “not believing it” what supposed to mean. Thanks for telling me what I believe, I appreciate that. Oh wait, now someone else told me what to believe. I’m stuck in a cycle of sheepdom. Oh noes!
As for respawning, I’m not advocating that when you die the game files on your system go corrupt and you can never play the game again. There is a happy medium, you know.
If you don’t enjoy that type of game, don’t buy it.
I’m hoping you’re actually going to do something to justify your view. I don’t have ADD, I can cope with being out of the game while the round is finished, and I can chat to the other players while watching. I find it works because I get time to discuss, bond, etc. Personally, I prefer a lower round limit because the maps simply aren’t big enough to justify 5 minutes, but that’s why I run my own server.
Infinite respawns in COOP tie into the WoW way of gaming entitlement where all you need to do is put time into a game and you will win, no skill required just time. With no, or limited, respawns time alone is not going to lead you to victory, you will need to improve your skills within the game as well, or you will always fail.
Oh God yes, how I hate infinite co-op respawns (ruined Serious Sam co-op for me, because christ knows what a good life level was), but then co-op is always such a “we threw it in at the last second because we could” job.
You haven’t yet realized the lack of spawning is a crutch for poor design ambition? It’s really quite simple, I wasn’t trying to be snide. I used to be like you - oh, the tension… oh, the suspense… oh, the waiting time… zzz…
If I had a Yukon that got 18MPG I wouldn’t consider my responsibility to fill up the tank five times a week a “feature” that I was allowed to “enjoy”, if you get the drift.
Aside from your sour disposition and flippant rebuttals, did you have any sort of response to the questions posed?
I didn’t say you were advocating the single player files going corrupt, in terms of “game design” the situation is analagous. You can tap-dance around that all you want by saying my example was too extreme, but untill you address it I’m not seeing a “happy medium” here.
Nobody would find it acceptable to have a cool-down period or intermission sequence after you die in a single player game before you were allowed to reload your game or respawn.
You have asserted that my dissaproval of this design mechanic is due to an implicit case of ADD. Bzzzt. WRONG. I don’t play games to chat, I don’t play games to spectate. I don’t play games because I have mental disorders or need to project myself into an avatar in a far off land. I play games for fun, and when I’m not “playing” there is no point in sitting in front of a CRT, staring blankly yammering away as if it’s IRC. The last few times I even bothered to play CS, the first thing that got toggled was hud_saytext_time 0
He’s not lying- people do like it. I like both respawns and round based ‘die then spectate’ play, and the limited or no respawn style is way more exciting.
I also enjoy playing ironman singleplayer games from time to time, depending on the game.
edit: wow, is this guy a viral marketer for Assholes or something?
NEWSFLASH, jerkass, some people enjoy stuff you don’t enjoy.
Actually, I didn’t.
Since that’s entirely subjective, it’s meaningless.
Ok, let me be less flippant and more clear.
Your opinion about disabling or limiting respawns in multiplayer games, especially co-op or team games, is just your personal opinion. Some people do feel like its a good design decision. See forgeforsaken’s argument for one example of why. Another I’d add is that not everyone’s idea of fun is yours. Certain slower paced games like GRAW benefit from this because it helps players achieve a greater sense of accomplishment. See difficulty levels and options in many games. In a single player game you don’t instantly respawn with full guns and ammo the moment you die, even with quicksaves and quickloads. People also don’t quicksave and quickload, even the most obsessive ones, after every round that leaves the chamber in FPSs. At some point there has to be a challenge during games, something to overcome, or they aren’t very enjoyable for many people. I’d argue the vast majority, excluding you.
I’d be nice if everyone else had to stop playing and load back up when you died during a multiplayer game, wouldn’t it? But that wouldn’t be very fun for them, would it?
As a final rebuttal, there are even gasp people that like to play both kinds of games, respawns off (or limited) or respawns on. You can play both, and have them both still be good design decisions.
WoW and its inherent time scale has nonexistent comparative value in a conversation that is directed towards “Co-op/multiplay FPS idea”.
I don’t disagree. What I do disagree with is the suggestion that round play in and of itself provides more “excitement”, “pressure” and intrigue to the gamers and the spectators. You started this thread based on suggestions to improve this situation - correct? Why would you do such a thing if you didn’t see a fundamental problem with the mechanics?
Because he doesnt see any fundamental problem with the mechanic, he merely wants to discuss ways to improve upon it.
Round play in and of itself DOES provide more “excitement”, “pressure” and intrigue to many gamers and spectators.
Single-life/round is great as long as the rounds are short. The problem is that co-op levels aren’t always short.
I hate games without respawns…I want to PLAY not jerk off and watch other people play. Sorry- game time is highly limited by kids and having a life outside of gaming at this point.
But, I think if we are going to have an audience, add it to the bottom of the screen like Paper Mario, and yes, allow them to throw crap at people- or even power ups and such.
I like it, and I die a ton. I need time to grab a new beer, feed the dogs, take a whiz, etc… can’t sit on my ass playing for 2 hours straight without the little ‘death breaks’
I don’t have kids though. I’m pretty sure it’s because they might interfere with gametime. That and the wife doesnt like 'em all that much.
Hold on, let me read that again. No, still an incredibly ignorant comment.
That’s just silly. I’d say it’s the other way around but that is almost as stupid. There’s very valid reasons to include or not include spawning. You mentioned one for the former – I want to play now – here’s an example for the latter.
In GRAW dying means something. In single player, it means you’ll need to be more careful as you replay half a level. In multiplayer, it means you wait for your teammates to finish what you failed to do.
Neither is a crutch. They are different and conscious design decisions.
I’m sorry to hear that. It’s a great mechanic in the GRAW games.
I like this audience idea. Maybe we could throw tomatoes in GRAW.
No it isn’t. They should be playing the game better.
If you want to play, keep your head away from the damn bullets.
It’s because he really likes it. Shooting the shit while hanging out in the dead area, finishing off a beer, is a great source a fun, a good opportunity to learn, and a good chance to question the living players’ sexual preferences.
I don’t want to speak for Guapo but I think he likes it enough to want to make it even better. You can prove it by shooting him in the head while he attempts to reload infinitely in a GRAW co-op mission.